Blown Engine 550 Spyder AE

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by previously_boxsterz

Thanks for the reply.

The stipulation of the engine being installed by your team is awkward. One can understand the desire for assuring everything is in order personally, but you have no control of the car after it leaves your shop. It would seem only right that you trust the owner after the sale. There's nothing special or magical with removing and installing these motors. Any competent shop can do it.


Please consider putting a warranty out in writing. If not, an owner may as well take their chances with a factory crate motor (with design flaw) and not have to deal with your restrictions. After all it remains to be seen how well your fix holds up as time is the only true test.

The stipulation isn't awkward at all. Most of what we are building are performance engines that are not a simple "remove and replace". There are subsystems that must be up to the task and we must ensure that all aspects of the car are worthy of our engine.

I have been an engine supplier for the majority of my life, having sold my first engine to a paying customer at age 13. I know the reality that lies behind stamping my name on an engine, giving it a warranty and then putting the life of that engine into someone else's hands with no control over it's destiny.

As for trusting the purchaser: Well, I trust my neighbor also, but there is still a fence between my property and his.. I have learned that the sale of a engine, especially a performance engine is a critical thing, having sold thousands of engines all over the world (I have had an engine on every Continent for over a decade) I have learned that all things must be in order and removal of red tape and complexities is a must. This is mostly because I don't believe in fine print and do not use it, anything that needs to be said is done so up front and boldly.

I take the work that is done here very seriously and the lab work that is done for each engine prior to getting my personal stamp of approval is a lengthy process. We put EVERY engine through a rigorous, yet controlled dyno test for 12 hours before it is released to be installed into a vehicle. This testing includes rigors that you cannot parallel in the car and all is completed under the watchful eye of 28 sensors with feeds being downloaded by my data logging equipment. What this allows is a full understanding of exactly how the engine is functioning, what temperatures it is running and how it is performing. You can rest assured that IF there are any issues with any engine they will be noted and remedied and then re-tested prior to leaving our facility, whether the engine will be installed by us, or not. This also allows ZERO break in time for the engine, meaning we have done this for you and the engine can be driven at it's potential from the very beginning.

This is not something that is done by Porsche, or certainly by any other shop. Our ability to design, develop, test engines in the same facility where we assemble them, prove them and install them as well as test them again in the car on the chassis dyno is an edge that you won't find anywhere else.

In times past I have noted that the people that buy something because it has the best warranty overlook true value in design and practical application. I never put stock in a warranty- when I buy something and the clerk asks me if I want the extended service plan I politely tell them that I prefer to keep my money and take my risks as the red tape thats generally attached to the service plan render it virtually worthless should something actually occur. These issues are very clear when one looks into the situations that Porsche's warranty on engines and cars has created for many purchasers, sometimes requiring legal action to get something repaired under warranty- I am a developer and have no time for Court proceedings.

A performance engine and car is filled with risks, anyone that does not want to face these risks are much better keeping their vehicle bone stock. This statement applies to those who have a Chevy or a Porsche or a Ferrari... A single bad tank of fuel or a missed gear shift can cause issues that may lead to finger pointing and a contest in a Court room, neither of which I desire.

I have put together a well developed program for the M96 engine and offer to the public. This program couples individual assembly, lab testing, installation and then in- car testing of the engine and subsystems to ensure no problems exist, we'll then road-test the car for a couple hundred miles before it is picked up or shipped from our facility. I have worked to reduce the cost of shipping to allow more people to take advantage of this program.

My program isn't for everyone and thats evident. Rest assured that anyone who takes advantage of the program is getting way more than something that can be put in writing on a piece of paper.... Do a google search under my name and read the hundreds of references to my work from people all over the world and when you do this realize that I haven't given a performance air-cooled engine under warranty for the past 9 years but that hasn't stopped more than 5 purchasers from taking advantage of my intensity, dedication and development. In that 9 year period I have had three engine failures, each of them I took care of fairly even though there was nothing in writing that said I had to.

Time will prove to others what we already know about our program and that is the fact that it makes the Boxster and 996 the cars they should have been from the factory, regardless of what a piece of paper may state.

[Pismo]

The autopsy revealed a failed intermediate shaft. Service Rep assures me I’m getting exactly the same engine installed Monday but it may not be finished until mid week. The Rep would not say what the warranty will be on the engine. He says the warranty won’t go beyond the original warranty. The original warranty expires Oct. 4th… this seems wrong. Anyone have this sort of experience?
In 10 minutes I'm out of warranty

[mikefocke]

are two totally different things. I don't buy extended warranties either. But I do expect a warranty against product failure for a reasonable term after I buy a new product.

The last remanufactured engine I bought had to be replaced at ~1600 miles because it smoked worse than the one it replaced. It was replaced at no charge because the company that remanufactured the long block provided a written warranty. The warranty covered the engine swap labor charges. So I had assurance that I'd only pay parts and labor once and be good for a year.

I have no problem with the installation requirement, though your geograpic location is not favorable to the largest concentration of P-car owners.

(Will you do clutch replacements as part of the installation since that often makes sense to do while the engine is dropped?)

With no written and contractually enforceable warranty, the engine could fail 2 weeks after installation, after normal road driving, and the buyer would have no legal recourse.

Now if someone had been producing essentially the same engine for several years, had a track record of many on the road for many miles with testimonials from many people who had been "treated right" and a legally enforceable warranty of the same length, I'd feel differently about the value proposition between a Porsche crate engine and a same-priced improved alternative.

[Jake Raby]

First off, the BS that Pismo is about to encounter is THE problem with a warranty. I hope someone he interfaces with has some sense and recognizes that he had a problem while the engine was under warranty. That's not the case in most instances as when the clock strikes midnight the prince turns into a frog immediately.

Secondly, I do own a Boxster and this is not an effort that's been done as a sideline from our aircooled efforts. I have expanded capabilities to support the M96 efforts including a new and totally separate facility to do the M96 development, assembly and testing. This side of my house will also be developing and building the M96 365 days a year, and this has already begun.

Many people have missed the point concerning the goals of our program as at the present our goals are to create the components to all ow local shops to do rebuilds and updates for stock engines. These shops will be trained how to use our tools and updated components here at our facility and as we release updates and revisions these dealers will receive them.

Our focus here until Porsche cancels the engine replacement program will be creating what Porsche won't and that's a performance M96 engine. The stock rebuilds are not our focus bit we are offering them. When I speak on the warranty subject most of my responses aimed toward performance applications.

Thus far those who have purchased engines have not been very concerned with warranty, be it a stock or performance engine. This very informative post has helped me to realize that I will need to incorporate some alternate warranty for the engines
and I will work on this ASAP. I am very confident in the program and the components and have issues with a written guarantee for a certain amount of time but there will be limitations and conditions and these will be very clear and the document will be posted on the website. Engines that we install and test will have different terms and conditions than those that are shipped. Watch my site for updates on this topic.

All in all we want to see the car and we want to install our engine when ever possible. The life of the engine being in someone elses hands is not something I fancy, especially in these first few years of the program when every eye is on what we create with great skepticism.

For clarification: Unlike the aircooled side of the house the M96 divisions doors will be open for car drop off or pick up or regular retail sales, and chassis dyno services
beginning 1/09. This was the entire reason that I am adding the new facility onto the property.

The driving force behind most businesses that are successful is to generate capital. What lured me onto the M96 scene 3 years ago was the problems with the engine and the fact that it was misunderstood and mysterious. These are the same things that lured me to the 914 engine as all I appreciate is a true challenge.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Jwade,
Lots of people are worried by what they read and they should be. NO CAR is immune to these issues, no matter the mileage! In fact, it seems that cars that are driven easy and taken care of will fail MORE than those that are well taken care of and driven harder! Very seldom does any engine fail at a DE or on the track, most happen in city driving.

Bruce, re: our continuing discussion, is this evidence that driving our cars hard won't hurt them?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Paul

Bruce, re: our continuing discussion, is this evidence that driving our cars hard won't hurt them?

I agree with what Paul says. Driving it like a 90 yr old woman isn't saving your engine...and besides what fun is that anyways.

[Jake Raby]

The next M96 Excellence article will cover this subject of hard driving and engine failures Vs easy driving and those same failures.

[Lil bastard]

My take on all this is that there are inherent design issues which will cause your engine to 'grenade' regardless of how you drive (or maintain) it, in addition to issues which cause your engine to 'genade' if your drive it 'hard', there are those which will cause it to 'grenade' if you drive it soft.

That's not an endorsement to drive it 'hard', though it may not matter in the long run if you drive Hard or Soft.

It seems like not 'genading' your engine is a roll of the preverbial dice insomuch as the 'Morrocan' assemblymen were asleep at the switch ... or not.

The bottom line being that the 'myth' of Porsche 'reliability' is just that... myth!

My take is that if you own an M96 motor, it's much more a matter of 'when' rather than 'if''.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

My take on all this is that there are inherent design issues which will cause your engine to 'grenade' regardless of how you drive (or maintain) it, in addition to issues which cause your engine to 'genade' if your drive it 'hard', there are those which will cause it to 'grenade' if you drive it soft.

That's not an endorsement to drive it 'hard', though it may not matter in the long run if you drive Hard or Soft.

It seems like not 'genading' your engine is a roll of the preverbial dice insomuch as the 'Morrocan' assemblymen were asleep at the switch ... or not.

The bottom line being that the 'myth' of Porsche 'reliability' is just that... myth!

My take is that if you own an M96 motor, it's much more a matter of 'when' rather than 'if''.

Very good observation and opinions..
But the trends point toward many more failures from cars driven easy or by Women than any others despie mileage on the engine.

We have logged every mode of failure with pics from every engine we have torn down and got reports from the drivers to create the stats and we'll continue to do this to create a very detailed understanding of what happens, when and how.

Track failures are few and far between.

[Paul]

As I've stated before (too many times, probably), I've been flooring and shifting Porsches near redline since 1974 and have yet to experience an engine failure.

I'm either very lucky or Porsches are not hurt by driving them at full throttle and high revs.

Regardless, I've been having fun for decades.

[Paul]

Here's a scan of my 2001 986 that I bought new. It currently has more than 74,000 miles and uses no oil at all between 10,000 to 15,000 mile oil changes (once a year).

Notice the 16,251 revs in range 1.