Poll:IMS related engine failure

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

The claims alone should warn you against this specific product. Nothing is Eternal.

There are IMS replacement bearing kits where many thousands of owners over many years with many tens of thousands of kilometers of driving and many postings on forums might lead you to suspect that they are reliable. There are other newer products where it is too soon to tell...interesting design theories but where is the proof?

And a lot depends on the skill and experience of the installer.

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." – Richard Phillips Feynman

Mike, the only thing "eternal" about the IMS is the endless list of "latest and greatest" fixes for a problem that already has a very widely proven retrofit.

[Jake Raby]

I have yet to find anything thats mechanical, thats also eternal. Everything mechanical will wear out, or fail.

[3_Angels]

Note that the "Eternal Fix" has a oil flooded IMS. On the other hand, my 2002 S with 97K miles had a half a cup of oil in the IMS that made it past the seals.

[Pdwight]

if it moves it will wear out....who said "The perfect machine will have no moving parts" ??

[Lisbon Lion]

Hi All, I’ve just bought today a 1999 Boxster S, black mate. I’m love in it, however I’m concern with the IMS Bering failures, and I’ve contacted a dealer for a change of the Bering. However they say, Porche’s only sells the combo kit with IMS Bering attached to an axel as per attached picture.
No. 12 and 13. they want over 2000 dollars for the job. Is this normal to buy it as a kit ? can I just buy the Bering by itself ?
many thanks and Salute
LL

[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by Lisbon Lion

Hi All, I’ve just bought today a 1999 Boxster S, black mate. I’m love in it, however I’m concern with the IMS Bering failures, and I’ve contacted a dealer for a change of the Bering. However they say, Porche’s only sells the combo kit with IMS Bering attached to an axel as per attached picture.
No. 12 and 13. they want over 2000 dollars for the job. Is this normal to buy it as a kit ? can I just buy the Bering by itself ?
many thanks and Salute
LL

The best option is the LN Engineering Retrofit or the Solution. I've just had the Retrofit done on my Boxster at an Independent Porsche servicer. It's a one day job for the Retrofit, and it just involves taking the transmission off to get access to the bearing, so the costs are not too high.

Problem: IMS Failure. Solution: IMS Retrofit

[mikefocke]

Lion, there are three generations of bearing designs and the housing they run in.

Since I suspect you might be across the pond, I'm not sure what distributors sell in Portugal nor what dealers will install nor what independent Porsche expert mechanics there are available.

Now if you are in the US (as in OH maybe) LN would have a list of approved installers on their web site. Marengo up near Youngstown seems to be the nearest and they have someone who has been trained.

LN markets different kits for different prices for different bearing generations.

Assuming yours is an original engine and not a later replacement, you have the best of the three designs and your bearing is absolutely replaceable if that is so. There is no way to be absolutely sure what bearing design is there without removing the transmission and looking at the parts that hold the bearing to the block as replacement engines could have any of the three designs.

LN is the most often installed bearing replacement kit.

In the US, Porsche itself doesn't offer any replacements for the bearing. And your dealer may well have exhibited just how little he knows about the bearings so I'm not at all sure I'd trust them with an install even if they would do it.

[timlawton]

first off, I'm a newbie here. all of my experiences have been with 911 sc's pre 85 models and mostly on a track....
I just bought my own first Porsche Boxster, year 2000 with 90000 on the clock...
all I could get from the 2 dealers that serviced it (porshe of new Orleans and baton rouge) is that they never changed the bearing. now I'm in a sleepless mode wondering if I have a time bomb on my hands.

the last owner said the owner before him had an indie Porsche shop change the bearing. I have no service records or stamps on the door saying it was done.
car runs fine, sounds fine looks like new and doesn't leak any oil or other fluids...

having said that, am I living on borrowed time, or is statistically a small chance?

tim

[kk2002s]

timlawton- There is so much on this subject on this forum.
Time bomb, eventually. The bearing is going to wear out some time.
But there are other mechanical failures that could get any of us before the bearing goes
So all of us live on borrowed time.
Without doing a visual on the bearing itself, about all you can do is inspect the Oil Filter and drop the Oil sump cover and look for ferrous metal debris. Problem here is if there is debris, then you need to serious have the engine internally cleaned to remove that debris

Many here tend to follow the logic if its time to replace the clutch then replace the bearing at the same time

As you research, there is much on other mechanical parts that one can do preventive replacement to stay ahead of the tow truck

[timlawton]

KK,
thanks for the input. the clutch is fine. feels like a new one. so I hate to drop the box to change a clutch that acts like it ought too.
however, I get the chills thinking about the bearing going tits up though.
there's a good indy Porsche guy here in town. he knows his stuff. all the local guys use him. he said bring the car in and he'll do an eval on the car and run an oil check. he can't get at it for a few weeks though.

this car is sweet and has a bunch of add on's like 19" porsche wheels, a new top, interior is excellent, and the body is great. everything works like it's supposed to except the bulb for the digital speedo is out...(know how to fix that?)

tim

[MikenOH]

Tim:
As the other member mentioned there is a ton of info available here on that subject.
Since you're new to the car, a few general observations:

-The condition can affect all engines--save the turbo/GT3 motors--used in all 986/987/996/997 model cars my 1997-2008.

-The reported frequency of IMS failure seems to vary by model year, depending on which bearing assy. is in the car. The early cars 1997-2000 and the 2005-2008 models reportedly have low rates of failure rates (1-2%?) while the prime years for this-- 2001-2004-- had significantly higher rates of failure (5-10%?) reportedly due to the switch to a single row bearing in those years. My own experience with a '99' and 06-- driven each about 45K miles and used extensively at auto-x and DEs--was problem free.

-Having said all that, there are members on various forums that have driven cars well over 100k with he original bearing. Frequent oil changes along with driving the car regularly--as opposed to rarely--seem to enhance longer bearing life.

-If I were in your shoes, I'd get the car to an indy that is very familiar with this motor and do a camshaft deviation check via a computer hook up. This will give you a clue as to how stable this assy is. Likewise opening up the filter and doing an oil analysis will provide additional info.

From this and other boards, it seems that a lot of people have treated pulling this bearing and doing the replacement as preventative maintenance. I think this makes sense, given the big price tag if the bearing goes.

Best of luck with what ever you decide.

[timlawton]

Mike,
thanks for your response. I feel a little better with those stats and that the car is well maintained. my indy did say first off he would do the oil analysis and a thorough inspection. I plan to follow his suggestions to the letter. he also said the same thing you and others have said, and that's some years were worse than others. he said most failures he saw occurred by 60,000 miles. I'm out of that window for my car.

originally, I never really liked the boxster and was holding out for a 911sc. it didn't happen and this car just appeared softly calling to me....I had to have it. it damn sure handles better than a 911...I don't miss the dreaded over steer of the 911's, which of course once you learned the car it pretty much became a non-issue....

thanks again to all...

tim

[imon_2nd]

I bought a 2004 Boxster S yesterday that has 98K miles on it and lots of service records. However the previous owner was pretty certain neither the IMS bearing nor the clutch had ever been replaced. Having researched these cars extensively, I've decided to have both done soon. My local Porsche expert at Schatz & Krum, Sacramento, CA, suggested using an oil-fed IMS bearing replacement, which would raise the cost of the combo job from about $2,800 to $3,400. The oil-fed bearing is supposedly a "life of the car" piece, as opposed to 40K miles on the ceramic bearing. Does anybody here have experience with the pressure-oiled IMS bearing?

[thom4782]

Nothing lasts forever.

If you're referring to the IMS Solution, it's probably the most bullet proof option out there because its a plain bearing. There's nothing to collapse, which leads to all sorts of other havoc.

The question to ask yourself is whether the $700 extra is worth the perceived risk it offsets. If you plan to keep the car a long time, say more than 100K, it's probably worth it.

BTW: the LN folks are saying to expect 75K miles on their IMS retrofits.

BTW2: I put the Solution in my 125K car b/c I didn't what to think about the IMS issue and its risks ever again.

[imon_2nd]

Just an update on my 2004 Box S...
Apparently, the engine failed at less than 47K miles while the first owner had it. Porsche replaced the motor under warranty. This was discovered last week when the indie shop removed the trans to do the clutch and IMS bearing. They found the motor is an M97, in which the cases must be split to replace the bearing.

[Smallblock454]

Hello mon_2nd,

that is correct information from the shop. Just enjoy your car, do a frequently oil and filter change, use a good oil and everything will be OK. And if it fails it fails. That's life. If you always think what could happen you'll never be happy and you'll never should drive any car.

And i didn't say that, but this IMS topic is also a nice money machine. Some people didn't know about the IMS problems and have M96 cars that hit 300 K miles without an engine failure.

So enjoy your box, have fun, enjoy live
Markus

[imon_2nd]

Thanks, Markus.

I'm enjoying my Boxster S very much. Currently debating with myself about upgrading the suspension (big $$$) so I can do track days. I sold my track & street Miata and the Box feels too soft for track work in its stock condition.

Cheers,

Dave

[rmgaiss]

I have owned a 2004 Boxter S for 5 years. I bought the car used from a dealer in NJ. No records were available, so I took it to my mechanic in Belir, MD. The car had close to 90,000 miles on it. I did the L&K IMS bearing update and changed the clutch. I have 146,000 miles on the car now and have had no issues [knock wood]. I felt the $$ I spend to do the upgrade was well spent, as was the resulting piece of mind. Just my 2 cents.

[mikefocke]

As always, a warning that a quantity one experience here is meaningless statistically. There are so many possibilities of variations in manufacturing tolerances, maintenance, driving style, weather conditions, hibernation, etc that my experience is meaningless for you.

My second generation bearing was at 93k miles last I heard.

This is a 1% per car year probability issue in the second generation design. (And that probably increases a bit as the car ages and more RPMs get put on the bearing.)

Read a lot and make the decision that is right for you. Your risk tolerance and pocketbook is different from mine.

Stuff happens. You can crash the car the day after you get the new bearing. You can have the engine blow the day after you decide not to change the bearing. Which will make you feel worse?

[MR2Fast]

Yep won the Porsche Lottery, (failure of the IMS) although I caught it before the motor grenaded. My oil filter is showing lots of metal flakes and the oil has a metallic sheen so I have found a replacement 3.2 that will be going in soon with a oil feed line to fix this issue for the future.

Anyone interested in a 2001 Boxster S 3.2 motor that needs a rebuild?