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Old 09-18-2008, 05:23 AM   #1
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Brakes - stay stock or upgrade?

is there much point in upgrading brakes on a base 2000 boxster?

the car needs new pads, probably rotors. i'm not goign to change the calipers, or do anything major. i just wondered if swapping to slotted/drilled or some other style of rotor would offer any REAL noticeable benefit??

the car is a weekend car drivenon the street only. no track time.

i'll probably just do stock parts. i'll do the work myself to save $$ on labor at the stealership.
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:16 AM   #2
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Porsche have the best brakes in the industry. I read one of the top auto-x guy over at renntech uses only stock pads.
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:52 AM   #3
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You can "upgrade" the fronts of the 986 to the 987 rotors and pads.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:32 PM   #4
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if I upgrade to 987 rotors/pads are they larger/heavier or same size? lighter?

i'd only do it if it was better for performance. the stock brakes are great - i don't need "bigger" blingy looking rotors. i know the 987 has more power than my car so they may have put larger brakes on it..perhaps larger than I even need.

i dont want more unsprung weight. are the 987 pads/rotors bigger/heavier?

i just got a call from the dealer. they want $800 to do the front pads/rotors and $780 to do rears.

i went online and found pelicanparts... i know there are plenty of other places to buy OEM parts, maybe even cheaper..but my first search generated a cost of about half what the dealer is quoting me... so 1/2 the cost is labor.

from past experience on other cars, pads and rotors is a no brainer easy job. it might even be fun. my dad is selling me his car - it's in teh shop now for the PPI. the only thing the car neededd is brakes and tires. my dad offered to help me put on the brakes - fun father son thing.. even at my age of 36 it would be fun to spend the day with dad doin brakes.

i'll probably just stay totally stock. i noted some websites sell generic zimmerman rotors... or cheaper pads...

what pads are considered OEM? pelican had pads by Mintex, pagid, and Textar. they state textar is the OEM supplier. also the most $$
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:12 PM   #5
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Do it yourself...it's an easy job. Search around and you'll find complete instructions along with photos. Here's one suggestion: buy a Motive Power Bleeder and change the fluid. ATE blue is a good choice. If you are interested in a firmer pedal feel, stainless steel brake lines make a big difference, and they're an easy swap while you are doing the rest of the brake work.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:00 PM   #6
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987 front discs might be SLIGHTLY bigger but they are cross drilled and FELT lighter to me in my hand then the 986. Pads are probably the same however the 987 does have a different part number.

Cost between 987 and 986 parts are pretty much a wash
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:22 PM   #7
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anyone know if the 987 rotors ARE lighter?

on the same topic - I was searching online for rotors and found quite a few places that sell zimmerman rotors that come precross drilled. i could get the same "look"but keep OEM sizes,e tc.

my only issue is that I don't know whether it's advised to stay with OEM porsche stuff. on all my other cars i just used gneric stuff and all worked fine.

anyone here swear by the OEM stuff or think that generic zimmerman rotors are fine, and then go with a decent quality pad? i'm not looking for race compound pads or anyting, just a nice pad for street spiritied driving - stock pads or stock equialent generics are probably fine.

any suggestiosn on pad/rotor combos that don't cost an arm and a leg like dealer prices but still perform as well or better?
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:26 PM   #8
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I'm a little confused. What are you trying to accomplish? Bigger rotors won't stop you quicker.. they just dissipate heat quicker. Your tires are more important to quicker stopping than bigger rotors. If you're only driving on the street with no track or auto-x time (which you stated), then heat dissipation is no issue for you. I'd stay with oem rotors and mintex redbox, hawk, pagid, axxis, or even oem (except for the dust) pads for the street. All are fine. Some with more or less dust than others. Some with more or less rotor wear than others. But all are good pads.

A 986 to 987 rotor swap, as I understand it, is NOT a straight swap. New calipers and pads would be required. And perhaps other hardware. (I haven't done it but read elsewhere that this is the case... I could be wrong on that) . The stock, straight-from-the-factory brake hardware is world class. For the everyday driving that you state you do, they will never fade, overheat or otherwise lose it. So.. unless you're hitting the abs everytime you brake, and are as a result overheating the pads and getting fade, I'm not sure what "upgraded" brakes will do for you. (Track time not included! My second day ever at the track the stock brakes started fading. I upgraded my track pads to Pagid Orange with stock rotors. Never a hint of a fade since on many many track days.)

And yes.. if you haven't changed your brake fluid you need to... like right now!! ATE Blue or Gold wold be a good choice. About $14 on line from several vendors. Brake fluid is hygroscopic (it absorbs water, which is very very bad for brake fluid since its non-compressible (water that is). Pus it, water, boils at 212F...at which point you have no brakes. And since the temp of the fluid in the calipers gets quite a bit above 212 F during braking...not good..at all). Porsche recommends changing the fluid every two (? could be every) years. (I change mine twice a year so I don't know the recommended change interval, other than its at least once every two years). Change your brake fluid.

Bob

This seems to be the brake question day on the forum!
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Old 09-18-2008, 08:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro
Do it yourself...it's an easy job. Search around and you'll find complete instructions along with photos. Here's one suggestion: buy a Motive Power Bleeder and change the fluid. ATE blue is a good choice. If you are interested in a firmer pedal feel, stainless steel brake lines make a big difference, and they're an easy swap while you are doing the rest of the brake work.

I agree totally. I changed the pads and flushed the brakes on my 01 base and I've never even witnessed a brake job before. I went with Mintex redbox and ordered the Motive power bleeder, brake fluid and pads from Pelican. Not a bad price and got free shipping on the whole deal. Just make sure before you order the brake fluid you check the master cylinder to see what color fluid your are currently using and buy the opposite or you won't be able to tell when the old stuff is flushed out. IIRC the rotors aren't that difficult either, but I didn't have to do mine because they only had 35k on them. Just read and re-read the instructions before proceeding and you'll do fine. Took me a total of 3 hours for all four corners.
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:31 PM   #10
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986 to 987 FRONT parts ARE a straight parts only swap. Double check your references Bob. I'm on my second round of 987 Discs and Pads on my 2001 986. AGAIN FRONT ONLY ARE A STRAIGHT SWAP.

23109 - If you end up buying zimmerman discs make sure you paint the hats on the disc. The coating from the factory suck and they will rust VERY fast.
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Old 09-19-2008, 05:24 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=TriGem2k]986 to 987 FRONT parts ARE a straight parts only swap. Double check your references Bob. I'm on my second round of 987 Discs and Pads on my 2001 986. AGAIN FRONT ONLY ARE A STRAIGHT SWAP.

Glad to know that. As I said, I could be wrong.
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:34 AM   #12
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Just making it clear for everyone so they don't go buying both front and then find out the rears wont fit.
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:26 AM   #13
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It's a falacy that more power requires bigger brakes.

More power will get you 0-60 faster, but the car is still going to stop in the same distance from 60 (or any other speed) as before. The Boxster brakes are some of the best in the business and are more than sufficient for any modding a DIYer would do short of doing a lot of track or auto-x work. People are either misinformed, or they simply like the peacock effect of larger brakes, drilled and slotted rotors, etc.

If you substantially increase the weight, say by 500 or more lbs. then bigger brakes may be in order to maintain the same stopping distance.
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:54 PM   #14
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It's a falacy that more power requires bigger brakes.
Blanket statements like that are rarely true. In the Boxster's case, the brakes are already about as good as they get for its normal performance use, like DE or AX.

However, it's a fact that more horsepower on the track will provide higher entry speeds into the corners. With higher entry speeds, you will need more braking to haul the car down to the speed the corner requires. Even if you brake earlier, you'll still be requiring the brakes to absorb more energy. If they are already near their limits, adding more horsepower *will* overcome your brake's capabilities. Brake fade will result.

In that case, it would be a trueism that "More power requires bigger brakes."
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:04 AM   #15
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Blanket statements like that are rarely true. In the Boxster's case, the brakes are already about as good as they get for its normal performance use, like DE or AX.

However, it's a fact that more horsepower on the track will provide higher entry speeds into the corners. With higher entry speeds, you will need more braking to haul the car down to the speed the corner requires. Even if you brake earlier, you'll still be requiring the brakes to absorb more energy. If they are already near their limits, adding more horsepower *will* overcome your brake's capabilities. Brake fade will result.

In that case, it would be a trueism that "More power requires bigger brakes."
Confirmed.

Stopping distance is mostly a function of weight and tire grip. If you want to stop faster, drop some car weight or add some fat sticky tires or both. A stock base Boxster already has a shorter stopping distance than a Ferrari 575 Maranello. It's no slouch to be sure.

Brake pad/rotor fade and overheat is mostly a function of weight, driving style and brake components. If you often overheat your brakes something is probably wrong: sticking caliper, lost cooling ducts, poor braking technique etc. Find the problem and fix it for 1/20th the cost of all new upgraded brake components.

Spongy, imprecise brake feel at the end of a long track session on a hot day is most likely brake fluid approaching it's boiling point. A well known Porsche problem. This is often misdiagnosed as brake pad fade. If you do a lot of track days just use a good high temp brake fluid and change it once a year.

If you add a bunch of horsepower should you upgrade your brake components? Maybe. For spirited street driving it is probably still overkill. If you are a fire breathing track hound the answer is probably yes.

For example: An 80hp 914 enters turn one at Streets of Willow at around 90mph. My 200hp 986 enters the same turn at 115mph. A well known 295hp 987S enters at 125mph. The 987S is carrying greater speeds into each turn and weighs a little more. He needs to scrub a lot more energy every turn and is more likely to overheat his brakes. The larger 987S brakes are matched to his higher corner entry speeds and higher heat generated.

So if you track you car a lot and drop in a 3.6L motor, bigger brake components are probably in your future. Otherwise you will probably never notice the difference between well maintained stock brakes and "upgraded" brakes... Except perhaps for that all important "Peacock" factor.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:26 PM   #16
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no need for bling.

I just want OEM stuff. I"ll probably order OEM rotors from pelican.

I did a quick check on tirerack, because I'm also buying new tires, and noticed I can get rotors/pads from them. They sell Brembo rotors for about what OEM rotors cost.

Brembo is a big name brand, but is it as good as OEM? better?

I'll probably skip any cross drilled/slotted stuff and jsut get regular rotors.

I have seen the posts here saying I *can* put 987 pads/rotors on the FRONT. are they any lighter than stock? the only benefit I can see to going with them would be if they were ligthter.... if they are bigger it's probably more weight and I don't think I need/want that.

any recommendations on pads for street use?
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:20 PM   #17
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Brembos are excellent. Equal or better than OEM depending on who supplied that particular model.

For stock pads I highly recommend Hawk HPS. Good up to light track duty, long life, quiet. Tirerack has them for a good price.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:44 AM   #18
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so the brembo rotors are as good as OEM or better?

if I order those, plus the Hawk pads that tire rack has - i can just order ALL the stuff I need in one shot.

rotors, pads, and my tires.

although I'm not sure if tire rack sells the sensors or other little parts i might need for a brake job.... my wear light came on and someone said if the light comes on youneed to redo the sensors..

can I resuse all the other components..or are there any little pieces/parts I need to order along with rotors/pads?

I just went on the tirerack website and noted those Hawk HPS pads indicate they do NOT have cutout for the wear sensor...so does that mean you just leave the sensor off totally and forgoe using it? does the sensor light go off or stay lit up all the time?

if i want to retain teh wear sensor and have agood pad, what do you reocmmend..

maybe i'm just right back to OEM stuff.. pelican parts here i come

Last edited by 23109VC; 09-25-2008 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:09 AM   #19
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my wear light came on and someone said if the light comes on youneed to redo the sensors..
That is correct. The sensor is effectively a destructive test. You only need to replace the one (or more) worn through on the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC
can I resuse all the other components..or are there any little pieces/parts I need to order along with rotors/pads?
There is a pad spring kit but I keep reusing mine. Porsche recommends new caliper bolts when replacing the rotors, and I think rotor screws too.

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so does that mean you just leave the sensor off totally and forgoe using it? does the sensor light go off or stay lit up all the time?
Replace the worn sensor and zip tie them out of the way.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:58 PM   #20
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how many of you guys replace the caliper bolts when you do brakes???

i've done brakes on a lot of cars and never replaced this stuff... is this just BS to sell parts or do they really stretch/wear?
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