KSport Coilovers: All About 'Em
 

been considering coilovers for awhile now. looked at PSS9, JIC Cross, KW, H&R, D2 Racing, and KSport. i have finally decided on the KSports.

i'm posting info on how / why i arrived at my decision, what options i've chosen, what i expect, and finally, what happens when i get them.

the PSS9 seems to be the defacto standard coilover for our car. their standard spring rates are a little soft for what i do with my car. they also use metric spring ID's, which is a bit of a PITA when looking to upgrade w/ aftermarket springs (it is doable, though, without much trouble). i'm of the opinion that if they are valved for 260/370, they will be undervalved for springs in the 400/500 range. they're a reasonable bargain, but i'd have to factor in an additional $300 or so for springs and $400 or so for camber plates or GT3 lower control arms. that puts the total cost at around $2,600, which is getting a little pricey. additionally, i'd need rear toe links to correct toe / camber for lowered ride height. that's another few hundred bucks. bilstein does have a great reputation; dampers can be rebuilt in the US and revalved if the customer desires. turn around time is a few weeks. the last thing i don't really like is that height adjustmet is done w/ spring perch.

JIC Cross look great to me. they come w/ camber plates and i can choose my spring rates. additionally, their standard spring rates of 7kg / 9kg (400/500) is what i will put on my car. height adjustment is independent of the spring perch, which is nice. price is $2,600; comparable to the PSS9 total for my application.

KW look great & i hear good reviews. the thing i don't like about them is that height adjustment is done by the spring perch and total lowering for the variant 2 is only up to 1.5". when you lower the car, you are reducing total suspension travel. running really low means perhaps hitting bump stops a lot. additionally, the front spring rates are progressive, which i don't want. the rear rate is only 285lb, which is even less than pss9. these don't look to be agressive enough for my needs. $1,900 / set.

H&R have a good rep. their units are nice. the street version is ride height adjustable. the RSS version is ride height adjustable w/ stiffer springs and valving. neither have camber plates. both adjust height via the spring perch. $1,700 for the street; $1,800 for RSS. i vetoed these based on lack of adjustability, no camber plates, & spring perch height adjustment.

D2 Racing look pretty cool. they appear to be essentially JIC Cross clones with a few differences. hard to find a lot of personal testimony about them. i contacted the company for some info. they did get back to me, but ultimately did not provide the information i was looking for. their US presence is lacking. ultimately, i didn't feel comfortable with them; too big a risk.

finally there is KSport. they come with camber plates up front and rear pillow ball mounts with three camber settings. this is GREAT because it's possible to correct camber / toe for lower ride height. this means no need for rear toe links. they are available with any spring rate the customer wants. the KSports come w/ infinitely adjustable damping (compression / rebound adjust with one dial). ride height adjustment is independent of spring perch, so full suspension travel is maintained even at lower ride heights. they appear to be JIC clones. they are servicable in the US (arizona); rebuilds are $100 per corner with a turnaround time of about two days.

they have received a lot of mixed reviews and some customer complaints. people tended to love the performance, but some people said they didn't fit the car or that the seals blew prematurely. one thing i realized very quickly is that a lot of people didn't install them or adjust them properly. one guy bought them for his 996 and said they were too long. he clearly didn't understand that total length is adjustable. others have used the spring perch to lower the cars to the point where there was no real travel left in the damper. this caused the shocks to bottom out, leading to an untimely demise.

another thing i found out: two years ago, the company was bought out. they admit to LOTS of problems with their early units. new ownership has taken the company through TuV approval and ISO 9001 certification; this is good stuff. i contacted the company on multiple occasions. response times were quick and information satisfactory. i requested shock dyno plots for my dampers; they communicated to me that they would provide them with my shocks.

ultimately, the JIC are what i would choose IF the Ksports weren't so damned cheap! they're $1,000 SHIPPED with dyno plots and springs of my choosing. considering the headway they've made in the last couple of years AND the fact that they will service them quickly and cheaply in the US, i'm willing to take the risk.

as for spring rates? my car is street / track, so it has to be livable on public roads. i don't mind a stiff ride, but i don't want it to be jarring. the boxster spec racing guys use 450 / 500. my thought was that there would be a bit of understeer inherent to these choices. this was confirmed by a guy on a BSR board who lowered his front rate to 400 & promptly knocked half a second off his lap time. i went w/ 400/500 (7kg/9kg). this, incidentally, is the standard JIC choice for our cars.

i should have these in a couple of weeks. when i do, i'll post install photos, setup notes, and initial street driving impressions. in early september, i'll be at the race track and will post track results & lap time changes. cheers.

Kevin

Right On
 

Dude,

Thank you for doing an excellent review. This sets a standard.

Ike

Sounds fantastic! Can't wait to hear more about these on the car.

Patrick

Insite,
Sounds like a good choice for your car. When i move up in class next year I will be doing coilovers/R-comps also. I am interested in your track testing with these.

One heads up if you change dampening: Several race teams have been testing off the shelf coilovers and found the dampening adjustment settings to be vague at best and completely bogus at worst. Their suggestion is simply to confirm your new dampener settings with a shock dyno to make sure they are still matched before you do your install.

How is your car running with all the new toys you put on last winter?

very familiar with this issue. the KSports don't even have detents that 'click' when you change settings; they're continuous. i will likely wind up using a 90 degree twist as a 'setting'. KSport will be providing shock dyno results to me w/ the dampers. i will verify with a local test.


running great! love the LW flywheel & spec clutch. the exhaust is awesome, & the new tranny is buttery smooth. i'm to the point now, though, where i can overdrive my suspension on the track. in the corners, i'm ready to dial in the next adjustment before the car is finished taking a set. i think w/ stiffer springs & tighter damping control i will be MUCH faster. i am betting on 1.5s minimum gain at little talladega and probabl 3s gain at road atlanta.

Insite, excellent write up. I'll be very interested to hear what your impressions are of the KSport coilovers when they come and you have a chance to install them. I've done much of the same research as you and found the low price of the D2 and KSport setups as very appealing. But I could not find any constructive feedback on their use with the Boxster. So I'll be very interested as to what you report back!

I've got the KSports on my car and I am very satisfied. The ride is stiff at the softest setting, but it's not horrible. Set in the middle, it's been great for AX on smooth courses. With the stock suspension, I was quite far off the top 10% times for our regional PCA AX events. Now, with the KSports and a set of Pilot Sport Cups, I'm in the top bunch. I even beat one of the PCA instructors in his 07 GT3 (also on Pilot Sport Cups!)The car handles flat and predictable. With all of the setting options, I'm very interested to hear about how you are running the car. One thing that I'm thinking of doing is enlarging openings on the strut towers above the adjustments. Right now, to change the camber settings, you have to remove the wheel and bottom out the spring and drop the top mount on the strut to make the change. The stock holes are too small to get to all of the allen bolts.

i'd thought about that. what i'll probably do is adjust the camber plates so that i'm at -1.2 deg camber with the struts pressed all the way inboard in the factory slots. that should give me around -1.8 at street height and -2.0 at track height. still, modifying the top mount to allow access to the set screws would be nice...

Excellent write up. Its post like these that adds value to the board. Bravo.

If you can, please post up your impression of them after initial drive or month or two after ownership with the settings that you decided to use.

Couple more questions though.

Also, did you order directly from KSport for the $1000 shipped price ? Its lower than prices I see on Ebay.

Did you end up with the Control / GT Pro / or RR version of the coilover ?

What made you pick it over the other two version ?

Gary in BR has/had them on his ride. I'm not sure what spring rate he is using but he said they are way too stiff for him and he's removing them.

What model K-Sport coilover did you buy? How in the world did you get them for $1k?

Hey, how were you able to adjust the ride height independent of the spring perch?

i'll post install notes / picks, setup notes, street impressions, & race track impressions / results.

i got them for $1,088 shipped from TCS Motorsports on EBay. this price INCLUDES the custom spring rates.



i went with the control. the RR version is just the control w/ different spring rates & valving. since you can get different spring rates for free and since the control version is already heavily damped, that's what i did. i think the RR version would be way to stiff. the GT Pro version has an inverted damper design similar to the PSS9's. i didn't go with this because i think it will be easier to adjust the damping in the trunk and under the clamshell rather than behind the wheels.

below the spring perch where the coilover is inserted into the wheel knuckles, there is a locking collar (on the front wheels, there is a locking collar on the very bottom of the strut, too). loosen the locking collars. then, twist the WHOLE strut. it will thread in and out of the wheel knuckle, making the entire strut shorter or longer. finally, tighten the locking collars. they need to be TIGHT; use a flathead screwdriver and a hammer to do this. BTW, if your struts make a knocking sound, these locking collars are loose.

how much better are these setups than M030?

how do they stack up against M030 from a bang/buck standpoint?

for spirited street driving - i would assume these coilover systems are overkill??

'better' has to consider application. for spirited street driving, the RoW M030 is perfect, IMO. it's even great for autocross and some track duty.

the reason i'm stepping up to a full coilover system is that i'm now able to drive beyond the capabilty of the M030 on track; the car doesn't react as fast as i can input steering corrections. additionally, this full coilover type of setup gives me more adjustability so i can dial in one setup for the street and a much more aggressive setup for the track.

it all boils down to rate of weight transfer. the M030 transfers weight in a nice progressive fashion; it's quick enough to allow a nice, sporty feel but compliant enough to really soak up bumps and irregularities in the road. the real difference with the KSports come from the increased spring rate and corresponding increase in compression and rebound damping rates.

spring rates are generally noted in force / distance. let's say i hit a bump in the road that causes a 1G force on the front left spring / damper. let's say that the static weight on that corner is 800 lb and that the bump causes an additional 800 lb force on that wheel. if my spring rate is 200 lb / in, that corner will compress by four inches. the damper will control that rate of compression and corresponding rebound. 4" is a lot of distance and will allow slower accel / decel as the chassis reacts to the bump. this is comfy. now say i double my spring rate. now, the same bump will be soaked up by only 2" of travel. if the dampers are valved in an equivalent manner for the spring rates, then the time used to accel / decel the damper is cut roughly in half. this means that the damper will feel as if it absorbs less of the bump and translates more of it to the chassis / passenger compartment. remember that in physics, 'impact' is defined as a change in momentum over a change in time. since we're halving the time, we're doubling the impact. quality dampers can mute the effect on the passenger compartment, but this will still certainly be less comfortable.

at the track, though, if i enter a corner with the stiffer springs, i get less motion, less body roll and a faster reaction time from the chassis. since the grip available on a tire's contact patch is proportional to the weight on the tire, i will have more time at peak grip in that corner (since the weight transfered there sooner) & the car will set faster, preparing to receive the next driver input earlier.

it's all about trade-offs. ultimately, my personal preference at this point is to increase the on-track capabilty of my car at the expense of street comfort. a compromise between the KSport and M030 would be the PSS9. they use progressive rate springs & lower absolute spring and damping rates. they are still great on track, but much more comfortable on the street. my personal preference here, though, was to surpass the PSS9 in spring rate & valving. additionally, progressive rate springs are nice for the road, but they translate into inconsistent handling at the track. a linear spring rate is more ideal in that setting.

man, i'm long winded today......

a little more info.....pls
 

Insite, U R awesome. Sell me that car!

Im looking into the same thing, and eagly await your results just like everyone else. However, i also ask for a little more info.

Where are you getting these, and which ones exactly? Dont they have different lines?

Ive been lookin, but have not put pen to paper in a proper eval as u have.

Thx.

TJizzle

i got them here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140247438327

i contacted the seller ahead of time with regard to custom spring rates. so far they've been great w/ communication following the sale. because of the custom rates and the fact that most shops don't have these on the shelf for our cars, it will probably be 2-3 weeks before i receive them.

With shocks, the devil is in the details. Anyone can make a coilover by taking a shock, adding some mounts and putting a spring around it. Its the shock that matters, especially its rebound control.

I have heard nothing but bad things about JIC. KSport sells the same basic unit for a whole slew of cars. They look cool but no one serious uses them on track or auto-x.

I would much rather get a system that was made by a shock manufacturer of repute like Moton, Bilstien, Koni, Boge, Penske, etc. I think you will find that a $1000 KSport system is worth $1000 and not a penny more.

Serious shock engineers admit that shock development and tuning are one of the last black arts in motorsports. I'd purchase from a master magician, not an ebay deal of the day.

Regards,
Alan

agreed!


on the contrary, i've heard a lot of GOOD things about JIC from various PCar owners. the only complaints i've heard tend to be about ride harshness; they're a bit more track than street. as to the assertion that 'no one serious' uses them on track? depends on what you mean by serious. if you mean 'competes for money', then of course you are right. if you simply mean 'serious enthusiast', well that's debatable.

do you honestly think we wouldn't all rather have Motons? apples and oranges, sir. they are $5k a set WITHOUT springs, camber plates, etc. ditto for JRZ. koni, boge and penske do not have applications for our cars. that leaves bilstein, JIC and the JIC clones. custom valved bilsteins would be nice, but again, $$$ is a consideration.


master magicians don't make much for the boxster. they certainly don't make anything that fits within a DE budget. for someone who competes to win, it might make sense to blow $8k on a 4-way Moton setup. for the rest of us, not so much. i believe the JIC design to be a good one. i also believe that the taiwanese will reverse engineer and improve upon this and similar designs. i also believe from having spoken to KSport USA about the direction their company has taken in the last couple of years that they will provide a fine product & great support at a bargain price. it's a gamble, but a calculated gamble.

Insite, I just bought the same set from the same people on eBay! What a small world.

I did not request the special spring rates, so what do I do now?

Have you got a picture of the shocks that you've got? The collars on mine are against the threads on the shock, but there does not seem to be any adjustment.

if you just ordered them, you can probably call TCS and have them change the rates. in my opinion, their standard split of 5.3/9.0 (300/500) is WAY too rear biased. you usually use your car on the street, right? i'd go 5.3/7.0 (300/400). it's not possible to go lower than 7.0 in back without having them re-valve the dampers. if you can't get them to change the rates before they arrive, you can buy a set of 7.0 springs from KSport for under a hundred bucks.

they look kind of like the ones in this pic (i don't have mine yet). loosen the collars circled in red (the rears may only have the top collar) and twist the entire strut. there are directions here: http://www.ksportusa.com/edocs/Coilover%20Instructions.pdf

looking at their instructions, it appears that SOME applications don't use this style lower mount and must use the spring perch for adjustment. i suppose the ones for the boxster could be this way......i was working under the assumption that they'd use an internally threaded lower mount. what do yours look like?

I just got my Ksport Coilover Kontrols today. They look amazing. Incredibly well made with strong attention to detail in every way.

They don't have an orange painted lower bit like the ones pictured. They have a second set of springs below the ones pictured above. I'm guessing that's for ride height adjustment. I'll try to get a shot of them uploaded over the weekend here.

They came unsprung... which I expected.

So how should these be adjusted before they go on the car? Or, should I adjust the ride height and spring rate after they're on the car?

I am confident my mechanic knows how to install them. How to set them is probably not something he does a lot because he's an "OEM all the way" kind of technician. He'll most certainly tell me I'm an idiot for buying these and I'm on my own after I install them.

Of course, I could be all wrong. He might be excited for me and know exactly how to tweak them. I'd just like some advance knowledge so I can instruct him as to how they should be set up initially so I can drive away and not drive wonky.

Thoughts?

Make sure the right springs go on the right shocks. Ride height will have to be adjusted in a couple of iterations until it's right. It will settle a bit, too, so you may have to raise it after a day or two. Get an alignment afterward. As for adjusting the damping, start full soft and increase the fronts by quarter turns until the front isn't bouncy any more, then do the same thing for the rears. Of course it's more complicated than this for the track, but this will be fine for the street.

Overdamped means you'll be skittish over bumps and the ride will be jarring. Underdamped means the car will porpoise and kind of skip along the road in a bouncy fashion.


BTW, randall, is the 106k in your sig 106k miles, or 106k dead presidents? ;)

The springs are already installed on the shocks so I think I'm safe there.

It's miles, but I'm betting I have more dead presidents in my 97 boxster than any other 2.5 liter boxster owner in the United States.

Not that I'm bragging or anything. Sheesh. I should be ashamed of myself!

But I'm having a wonderful time fixing up this car and modding it and that's what hobbies are all about, eh?

one more thing: how long did they take to show up after you ordered them?

I got them about four days after I ordered them. However, after careful examination, I bought them from a different company than you. The company I ordered them from had them in stock and shipped from Austin, TX which is just a day away via UPS.

KSports...Ksports...Ksports

Wow this has been a subject that has been with me for over a year.
I am way too bust right now, I am only getting to check in on the forum once or twice a week.

Learn from me kids dont try to open a 5th office...its killing me! :)



I am still trying to convince myself I can make these coil overs livable on my daily driver.

Maybe once you guy get yours on you can help me.


I have both of these problems the car is either too jarring or porpoises.

But, I do not have the 2nd "helper" spring on my car. Would this help???

I am also running the Ksport standard springs. Would getting a "softer" spring for the rear help.


The build quality and the ease of adjustment are top notch on this product.


Any help guys?


Gary

gary -

the standard spring rates are roughly 300/500. that's biased too much toward the rear. if you are comfortable with the front rate, you can reduce the rear to 400 lb / inch (7.0 kg / mm) and be fairly close to the PSS9 rates (4.7/6.6 or 260/370). that would be a lot more comfortable. if it's skipping over bumps when it's damped enough to eliminate the porpoising effect, then helper springs are a good idea. not sure if KSport has a kit for this, but i bet they do. FYI, 7kg springs from KSport for the rear of your car are only $100. you can get a pair of eibachs or hyperco for not much more. i don't have mine yet, so i can't take measurements, but other aftermarket helper springs will work here, too.

Gary, I'm no help because I don't have them on my car yet and have no experience with coilovers... yet!

DerGeist is running them and loves them. He's the reason I bought mine, and just stumbled across Insite's thread the day I placed an order for them off eBay.

Insite, I'm gonna need some help from you to get my Ksport Kontrol's installed right. My mechanic's never installed them before and it's gonna cost me a bunch of extra cash for him to learn how to do the basic adjustment as the clock ticks away at $100 an hour.

I just inspected them again this morning (in the box, at the office) and the rears have a 2 inch thin, light spring below the main spring that must be for the height adjustment.

However, the fronts do not have it on the shock, and it came loose in the box for me to add. Where does it go? Why would it not be on the shock the same way the rears have it on there?

The instructions sent are total crap. They're for another setup completely and only have about half the information I need.

The dials that go in the tops of each strut to do fine adjustments on the camber are not mentioned at all!

I'm thinking the company you bought them from may be more helpful than the eBay seller I bought mine from. I've put an email into tech support at Ksport headquarters in Phoenix but they're not open for business yet.

When you get yours in, do comment on what you got and how they're supposed to go on the car and the basic info I will need to do the install. For example, I'd love to know how many MM or inches I should set them up for at first.

Should I get mine installed first, I will try to explain what I finally figured out.

Hopefully, my email into Ksport headquarters will yield some better information.

randall -

FYI, i was an ASE certified mechanic back in the day. i'm intimately familiar with this type of suspension package. how do you want the car set up? street, track, both? what kind of ride height do you want to run? i'll assume primarily street w/ my advice here.

let's start with the helper springs. on each strut from top to bottom, the order of parts should be: top mount, spring cup, big spring, spacer, little spring, spring perch, and locking collar. you will adjust ride height from the spring perch at the bottom.

prior to installation, do all of this:

for starting ride height, tighten the perches just until they hold the springs in place. then, give them three more full turns and lock the collars.

you will NOT be able to adjust the camber plates once the struts are in the car; the holes on top of our strut towers are too small. since you will probably run your car a little lower than stock, we will need to take OUT some camber up front. loosen the allen bolts on the camber plates and position the center pillow ball so it is one quarter of the way between outboard and inboard. to picture this, if it were installed, the pillow ball should be closer to the outside of the car than the inside.

in back, we will also want to remove camber. remove the allen bolts on each top mount and move the pillow ball to the outermost of the three positions.

set all four shocks to full soft. MAKE SURE you leave the adjusters in the rear struts when you install them; you will not be able to fit them in after the fact.

once they're installed, go for a short drive to let the ride height settle. figure out how much you want to raise the car. put her back on the lift and adjust each spring perch up by that amount. these are linear springs, so ride height has a 1:1 ratio to perch height. raising the perch 1" will raise ride height 1".

now, align the car. since the suspension will not travel as much, you will need a tad bit more static camber than stock. set the front to -1.2 and rear to -1.8 (if you can get it) or -2.0. set front toe to zero and rear toe to a HAIR of toe in.

now, we can play with damping. since we're on full soft, the car should be porpoising badly. drive around and pay attention to the rear. increase rear damping by 1/4 turn at a time, taking a drive between each adjustment. once the rear settles down, do the same up front. at this point, you should have a good street setup.

you can probably run slightly lower tire pressures now; this will make things a bit more comfy. with those spring rates, i recommend 33 front and 28 rear.

once i receive my parts, i can be of more help. if you want to wait, i can give a more detailed write-up once i install mine. it will probably be another two weeks before they're here & i can install them.

on another note, randall, if you want an atlanta vacation, you can flee the hurricane and i can put them in for you on the cheap.

also, if you haven't replaced your rear wheel bearings, this is the time.

Here's a crappy cell phone pic of the fronts:

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/ksports1.jpg

And the entire set:

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/ksports2.jpg

So why are the thinner lowering springs not already attached to the fronts? I can see no way to put them on to look like the backs so there must be a different configuration.

I'm already having my mechanic do the front wheel bearings. He says the backs sound fine and don't need replacing right now.

BTW, I bought Che's adjustable toe links for the front and back. I'm getting rebuilt lower control arms all the way around, rebuilt rear trailing arms, and new drop links. The rear end suspension will be completely rebuilt and most of the front will be new as well.

not sure. some people choose not to run the helpers. i will be running them.

you have over 100k on your odometer. do the rears. if you don't and one goes bad, you will essentially have to redo all of the work required to install the coilovers. since the knuckles will already be off the car, it's easy to disconnect the ebrake cables & replace the bearings. they're $30 each.


nice. there are no toe links up front (tie rods instead). do you mean the diagonals?

randall -

one more thing: it's my understanding that the bolt threads on the Ksports are a different thread pitch than the OEM. you will need to buy the right nuts ahead of time.

randall - are they threaded on both sides of this collar?

This has been helpful, I am going to contact K sport about getting the helper springs and the different rear springs.

I think (hope) this will help.

Afterwards I'll update everyone.