Gary, I'm on the horn with them (on hold, of course) right now.

I'm asking how much 7 kg rear springs cost and how to install the helper springs on the rear, etc.

This is what Kevin (Insite) told me to buy on the phone just now when we spoke.

I'll post the info here when I find this out

Those thin tender springs don't add anything to the effective spring rate, and will be compressed flat at ride height. They just keep the main spring from rattling and coming off of the perch when the suspension is fully extended.
Steve

Hey Insite, the shocks you showed in the photo are the ones I've got for my car. They are threaded above the collar, but not below it. The collars are fixed solid as a rock.

i figured they were TENDER rather than HELPER springs. randall - when you talk to ksport, maybe ask about this. TENDER springs will aid in high frequency bump damping; the HELPERS are good for exactly what stephen said.


EDIT: reversed tender / helper to reflect proper nomenclature.

They are tenders, not helpers.

The Ksport guy sold me 7 kg springs for the back to replace the 10's. The fronts are 5.5... according to him.

There is evidently no separate ride height adjustment for the coilovers designed for our cars.

I am still completely lost on how to set them up as the instructions are total crap. Kevin, please document the install with LOTS of photos.

randall - can you measure the inner diameter of your springs? i think i'll buy some helper springs ahead of time so i can install w/ my setup. don't worry; i'll take a lot of photos.

Kevin, we're expecting a storm here in Houston today and both my employees asked if we could work out of the house today... which translates to the wife and golden retriever went on a weather-related strike. ;)

So, I am at home and the coilovers are at my office. I will probably drive over some time this morning and I'll measure them for you.

I'm also going to take pix of the tops of the units so I can do before and after mods you recommended and show you my work so you can OK it before I give them to my mechanic.

sounds good. the easiest way to measure the inner diameter of the springs will be to measure the OUTER diameter of the tender spring spacers. they will either be 2.25", 2.50", or metric.

The helper springs have an inside diameter of 63mm or 2.5 inches. The outside diameter is 83mm or 3.25 inches.

Overall height is 56mm or 2 3/8 inches sans the separator ring

Kevin, it's time to pry more knowledge out of your head about these coilovers. I know this will take some time, but if you can answer my questions once here with these pics, you will not be badgered by other forum members in the future :cheers:

Here we go.

In this first photo, we see all the tools and bushings sent with the coilovers. Please explain what each of them do, how they're used, why I have six of one tool, two of another, only six rubber bushings, do the bushings go on the fronts or the rears, do the bushings go between the tops of the strut mounting plate and body or under then nut inside the trunk area, etc. There were ZERO instructions on this in the box.

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/tools.JPG


In this second photo, we have a shot of the back strut. Please explain which direction I should move the strut... toward A or B? One other question... is the B side the outside or the inside?

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/back.JPG


In this last photo, we have a shot of the front strut. This one will be more complicated to explain, but I have questions as well. Is the A or B side the outside? Do I loosen the bolts and move the strut toward A or B? Where should the bolts C or D reside when they're in the right place?

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/front.JPG

I've barely got enough cash scraped together to get them installed right the first time, so I don't want to be forced to remove them for any reason to fix something I didn't get right. What I will do is to do the setup mods you mentioned earlier after a response and photograph them and post pics of the mod for your approval if that's ok with you. :D

okay, first photo.

'A' are for adjusting the damping. they go in the top of the struts. make sure you put the rear adjusters into the struts BEFORE you install them; you won't be able to get them on afterward.

'B' and 'C' go together. some cars have brake line brackets attached to the struts. these are replacement brake line brackets. you put 'B' around a brake line and then insert 'B' into the forked end of 'C'. you then bend it to whatever position you need and bolt it to the strut. in our case, the brake lines are held at the chassis. we DO, however, have brake wear sensors that these parts could be used for. i have no idea why they gave you six of each.

'D' are the spanner wrenches; they are used to adjust ride height. they're designed to turn those toothed collars up and down the strut housing.

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/tools.JPG


in the photo of the front camber plates, 'A' will be outboard. loosen 'C' and 'D', then slide everything outboard until 'C' is halfway between where 'C' and 'A' are in the picture.


http://www.iwantaporsche.net/front.JPG


i have to go out and look at my rear struts before i can tell you how to adjust the rears. technically, if you have adjustable toe links, it's not necessary to move them. i'll tell you how to reduce overall camber with them, anyway. i'll post in a bit.

Are you saying here that with Ksports the rear dampening can not be adjusted with the coil overs installed?

On my 99 I can adjust the dampening if my front and rear coilovers with them on the car.

Speaking of this, after we talked the other day about going with a lesser spring rate I went full soft on my rear coilovers and the driving I have done so far the car seems better. I am going to get the lesser spring rates and hope it solves my suspension issues.

Thanks guys.

Gary, I think Kevin is saying the orange knob thingy will not fit into the top of the strut through the hole in the bodywork (sheetmetal) of the boxster and it must be inserted before the strut is installed.

I think there's enough room to get your finger in there and move it around, but not enough room to slide it fully into place. Kevin, correct me if I'm wrong on this so I can learn too.

correct. there's plenty of room to adjust them, but not enough room to remove or insert the tool, so it needs to be inserted ahead of time and left in place.

i think it's POSSIBLE to insert the tool with the struts in, but you have to bend it a lot. better to just put it in first.

In mine I am able to get the orange knoby allen wrench in and I able to turn it. Maybe I have smaller hands...my poor wife. :rolleyes:

OK I am in on these as long as I get the word from all of you that these are good. Insite how long have you been running these? Initial reaction is that they are too good to be true.

Maybe a GB could be in order?????


JP
:cheers:

i don't have them installed yet; they are on order. they SHOULD arrive sometime next week. if they do, i will install them next weekend. once they're dialed in, i'll post installation notes and street driving impressions.

a couple of weeks after that, i will take them to the track and post race driving impressions.

okay, i went out and looked. in the picture below, 'B' will be inboard. you'll want to move the pillow ball to position 'A'.

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/back.JPG


on another note, i did a little more research into helper / tender springs. first of all, i had the nomenclature wrong. TENDER springs are softer springs that help w/ bumps. HELPER springs keep the main springs seated when the suspension is fully extended. without them, at certain ride heights the main springs might come unseated and make noise.

anyway, TENDER springs are what will improve the ride quality. both Eibach and Hyperco make some that are commercially available. they are 3" in length, so we MIGHT need shorter main springs. i will no more when i actually have my KSports sitting in my lap. TENDER springs can be ordered in various spring rates, usually from about 150lb to 400lb.

i will likely install my KSports with the factory provided tender springs and see how the ride is before i make a decision on tenders.

With all of the settings/adjustability on these shocks, I'd like to suggest that we post some of our alignment numbers, particularly camber settings. Here goes:
My ride height was set at 1" lower than stock
The front shocks were centered in their camber plate settings; camber came to -1.5 with both pushed as far inboard on the body mounting as they would go.
Toe was 0.04
The rear shocks were also centered in their camber plates; camber was -2.2
The closest I could get to zero rear toe was - 0.31

I'm very curious to know what the camber settings would be in the rear with them at both the next setting and farthest inboard setting.

J.fro, this is a good idea.

Kevin, I'm going to post my alignment numbers here later today so you can see my minor subframe damage problems on the driver's side of my car. It may change the advice you are giving me as to how to set up my coilovers prior to installation.

Basically, the numbers are a bit out of range on one side of the car and one of my hopes in installing the adjustable toe arms and making these coilover setups will alleviate the problem.

Here's my alignment numbers. This is the best the shop could do to get my factory struts and suspension in alignment:

http://www.iwantaporsche.net/alignment.jpg

Kevin, knowing the information above about what I think is minor subframe damage, does this change your recommendation at all about how to set up the coilovers?

BTW, I am now going to do a thorough web search and learn all I can about alignment and finally learn what has always confused me. This should help me a lot.

Oh, and one other thing... kudos to creating a thread that is now on it's FOURTH page! Wahoo!

randall -

don't just give them your car and say 'align it'. you have to give them the specs. they have neg camber on the front left and POSITIVE camber on the front right. this is in spec, but not technically correct. they should match (and i promise you your car is not the reason they don't).

in the rear, it looks like they could only get down to -1.9deg camber. what they should have done is match the other side to this setting, not simply leave it alone because the computer said it was okay.

your only real issue is the difference in caster between the front wheels. this is probably due to a bent strut and NOT to subframe damage. this problem will likely not exist when you install the ksports.

when you DO have the ksports installed along with your adjustable toe links, there will be NO excuse for not matching the left and right sides.

give them the alignment settings i posted earlier. tell them to hit them. if they can't, have them explain WHY and then tell them to at least match left and right to the same setting, even if it's not the ideal setting. all four corners on your car are so different that it must handle very badly. wait until you see how it feels when they're spot on.

Kevin, thanks so much for the quick response!

JP, the KSport people were a little shocked (pun intended!) to hear that Kevin and I bought a full set of coilovers for our boxsters off eBay from different sellers for $1088.00 with free shipping thrown in. I do not think a "group buy" is going to gain any savings.

If Gary and Kevin give good reports, I'd buy them from Insite's eBay seller and request the spring rates on the front and rear he suggests or ends up with that he likes.

Don't take my glowing reports as anything more than an a happy idiot who finally has a porsche with a new suspension and wheel bearings all the way around... something I have yet to experience on my old, beat up, wrecked, and worn out boxster. ;)

I just received a return phone call from Anthony at KSport. He was nice enough to contact the engineers and find out the specs on the new nuts we need for the tops of the coilovers.

I was told we will need 12 "M8 x 1.25" nuts.

Now, where should I go to find these little gems?

Anyone? Beuller? Beuller? Anyone?

I just ordered a dozen from this place. Nine bucks and change.

http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=15&cs=201&cm=22&selected=6884

Maybe just a package deal already set up with the proper spring rates, bolts etc etc. It would be nice to just order these and have everything set up as a kit.

:cheers:

I got my replacement rear springs in Friday and haven't had time to post the particulars, but wanted to do it for historical info should anyone read this thread fifty years from now....

The standard Ksport Koilover setup has the following spring rates on their units designed for the Porsche Boxster:

Front - 5.3 kg (stamped 10.5-205)
Rear - 9 kg (stamped 11.5-180)

Insite has recommended that anyone buying a set of Ksport Koilovers for their Boxster should order them with a special request for a different spring rate on the back struts that is closer to the rate of the fronts.

So, the change one would make would be to ask for the rear struts to be fitted with 7.2 kg springs that carry a factory stamp of 11-180.

I know the factory numbers between the 9 and 7.2's are very close (.5) but I verified this twice with Anthony in sales at Ksportusa just to make sure they are 7.2's and not 8's or 8.5's.

And that's all I have to say about spring rates right now. Bye.

i recommend either of the following:

5.3 front / 7.2 rear (300lb / 400lb) for medium stiffness

OR

7.2 front / 9.0 rear (400lb / 500lb) for firm stiffness


FYI, the 5.3/7.2 combo is closer to the PSS9 rates.

I am glad to see everyone has come around to see the K-sports as the are-a pretty darn good product for the money. Mine are still going strong. I had a slight problem with one of them, a valve blew out and K-sport stood by their warranty like pros. They sent me out a replacement coilover before I sent the blown one back so that I wouldn't lose any road time. Takes long enough to change these things out as it is. Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my $.02 here. For what it's worth I know a lot of people think K-sport is a johnny come lately to this but the fact is that they have been making coilovers in Japan for quite a while and their product is very well known and trusted in many circles.

Randall- I was happy to read that my opinion was a factor in your purchase. I am sure you are gonna enjoy them. You are getting top rate advice from insite, I couldn't possibly add anything to what he has already said but if you ever have any questions you are always welcome to call me and I'll do my best to help you out.

I wouldn't even think about putting these on a car without the helper springs on the front and back.

guys -

i spoke to TCS about putting together a group buy. basically, i can have them put together kits that include either medium or firm rates (300/400 or 400/500) along with the right mounting hardware. they think they can do substantially better than $1,088 shipped if several people order at once. PM me if you're interested in a set of these (once i've reviewed them, clearly) so i can guage the number of people that are looking to purchase.

FYI, since i ordered mine with dyno plots & custom rates, they're taking a little longer than usual. i'll probably receive them mid-week and install next week.

Hey insite,

If your set up turns out great I'd be willing to give the coil overs a shot.

After you review and give us a good impression one way or another I will decide. I have had the money ear marked for coilovers for a while. It is my stash cash that the wife does not know about so shhh....

Thanks for being the test mule.

:cheers:
have a beer on me!

Josh

Insite, if your setup turns out great, I'd be willing to give the coil overs a TEST DRIVE.
:cheers:
:)

i think we can do that! next track day is september 18th; you'll get the memo on monday.

Yeow!

:cheers:

Thanks for the info and review. :cheers:

anybody know which nuts i need for the top mounts? i know they're a fine thread M10, but i'm not sure if they're 1.0 or 1.25 threads / mm. my coilovers should be here tomorrow or monday and i want to pick up the nuts ahead of time.

I put a link to the right ones earlier on this thread. I got mine in and they fit perfectly, although I will need washers.

I should have bought ones with washers welded on but didn't know this until it was too late.