Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2008, 06:47 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
Uh oh. I got brake problems!

Well, today was the day to swap pads and rotors and brake lines. The back wheels were a piece of cake, even for this first-timer.

However, the top caliper bolts on both front rotors were frozen solid. It took a pry bar and lots of gentle back and forth motion to remove them (quarter turn back, quarter turn forward) without snapping off the head.

When they were finally removed, the steel screw had totally stripped the aluminum female threads.

What I need to know now is the bolt size and pitch so I can buy a kit to put a sleeve in and retap it.

Anyone have this information or done this on this part of a Porsche before?

__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 03:14 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,889
Here is a link to something on a UK Boxster board from 3 years ago.

http://www.boxa.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=15803&st=0&p=155605&#entry155605

If the link does not work, this is what I said.

"That is not good news - hope you can save your hub.

It looks like the bolt is 12 mm diameter x 1.5 mm pitch. You should replace it anyway so buy one and take it with you when you pick up the tap to verify the size.

I do not know what you call it in the UK but we call it a thread restorer. It does not cut new threads, it bends the old threads back into shape if they can be saved. The same type of tap is used to restore spark plug threads in aluminum heads.

If you can save the threads and torque the bolt to specs then you are lucky, otherwise you need to replace the hub or have the threads drilled out and put in an insert. I have no personal experience with the Boxster hub. Because this is a safety/brake item my dealer would just replace the hub.

Torque specs are 63 foot pounds or 85 newton meters."
Tool Pants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 06:37 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 644
Great info here! BTW, what kind of brake lines are you using Randall?? Stainless or OEM??

Last edited by dcporsche99; 01-27-2008 at 06:41 AM.
dcporsche99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 07:10 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 322
Hey Randall,
The same thing happened to me when I took my rear calipers off. I did exactly like Tool Pants posted below.
I went to Sears and bought a set of thread restorers. I couldn't just buy the M12x1.5 so I now have a set of 40.
Good luck.
mike
derb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 10:01 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
I believe what I need to buy and used is called a "helicoil."

This is not a good situation, that's for sure!

I'd rather not replace the wheel carrier, as those have to be big bucks and the labor to put it in. Ugh!
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 10:57 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,889
Helicoil is a brand name of a type of an insert. There are many others on the market.

About every 6 months someone on the Boxster message boards reports having stripped the threads in the aluminum hub trying to remove the caliper bolts.

The question is, can you save what you have without having to drill for an insert. I do not know anyone who has used an insert. I have never asked the mechanics at the local dealer what they do, since I know the answer. Put in a new hub.

If all the threads have pulled out then you are out of luck.

If there are enough damaged threads that can be fixed to hold 63 foot pounds of torque then try that first.

On the left is a thread restorer tap and die - that fixes damaged male and female threads. On the right is a normal tap and die that cuts new threads. I have the Sears restorer set mentioned by derb, except I have the 48 piece set. It is actually made by Kastar Hand Tools in the US and sold under different names.

Tool Pants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 12:01 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcporsche99
Great info here! BTW, what kind of brake lines are you using Randall?? Stainless or OEM??
Stainless that have some sort of plastic coating on them. I then put the plastic coil from the old OEM ones on the new ones to help protect them a bit more.

My existing brake lines were original and were crusty. I'm really glad I replaced them, or should I say I will be really glad I replaced them when I get my front caliper problem sorted out.
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2008, 01:47 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 644
Hi Randall,

W/c SS lines did you purchase?? Do you have a pic??

Hope you're making headway on your caliper issue!
dcporsche99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 09:08 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
No pics. I just bought the aftermarket SS brake lines from gforcebrakes.com.

They appear to be very high quality though. I think they were $23 each or something like that. Weltmeister has some for a similar price.

Quick update on my brake problem:

Bought a $155 sleeve kit from Time Sert. They had a distributor in Dallas with the kit I needed and the correct sleeve lengths required.

Bought two new caliper bolts from Sunset for $2.18 each. In stock. BTW, a local giant corporation-owned stealership said they'd order them for me for $8.90 each plus freight to order them and it would be 2-3 weeks. Let me write this one more time just to vent:

I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE THE SONIC GROUP. JOIN ME IN BOYCOTTING THEM.

Thank goodness for the independent Pcar dealer that just opened on the north side. They only wanted $2.90 for the bolts, but didn't have them in stock either.

Saturday I will tackle drilling out the caliper bolt holder (or whatever it's called) and put in this way-cool insert gizmo and get my brakes bled and get my boxster home where it belongs.

Say a prayer for me and my car if you're reading this before Saturday.

New wheel carriers, which comes after this if it doesn't work, are $560 EACH from Sunset and 3 weeks away in Germany. Add to that a whopping bill for installation for the same amount and the nearly mandatory "what the heck, let's replace the wheel bearings, struts and oh yeah, buy some of those lowering springs I wanted to do one day" and boom! $3800 out of pocket for a stupid and seemingly simple brake job.

Any boxster lookers reading this thread that are considering buying an old boxster, remember that the older, cheaper boxster you buy is going to cost you a LOT more to own over the long haul.

[I still love my boxster in particular though. It has become part of the fabric of my life, not another car I've owned in the parade of cars I've owned.]
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 11:29 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bowmanville, Ont
Posts: 295
Good luck on sat, take your time and it should work out fine. Take pictures as you go. I for one would like to see how it goes. If i lived closer i'd come and watch and drink your beer heheh
__________________
-- 02 Boxster S
-- Black/Black
-- Sideskirts/PSE
Sputter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 01:10 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 644
Thanks for the info Randall!

Don't forget the pics??

Good luck !!
dcporsche99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 06:55 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 116
Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle, err, I mean Randall!

Don't worry!

Your car is safe in my shop. I even went out this evening and stroked its little
top so it would feel safe here.

(So the rest of you know, it is residing, safely, in my shop building)

The odd thing is that after I caressed it, its front trunk lid popped open and the washers squirted all over. Does it always do that? Was it just happy to see someone care???

Have you been neglecting your car?

We may need to talk about this.

Oh. I think Randall is dead on about the Sonic bunch -- their reputation isn't, umm,
what it oughta be, in both of our opinions. I am phrasing this much nicer than I
could.

Okay, the "caliper bolt holder" (odd phrase from one who owns the Bentley manual),
also sometimes called the hub carrier, is gonna need a helicoil equivalent. No big
deal (hopefully!!!).

Oh, one last thing. I may order pizza for lunch. That way all the gas you, hmm,
how shall I say this, emit? maybe we can recycle back into your GAS tank.

We can, working together like good Algore savetheearth liberals (Ack!!!) keep
your car in tip top shape.

See ya Saturday, I presume?

- M
Houston C4S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 06:04 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
Bright and early there, Mark. The wife is bringing me to Brett's house and we'll carpool to your place.
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 10:32 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
Hey gang, here's a little video of what we'll be doing to my wheel carriers on Saturday:

http://www.timesert.com/video/StandardRepair.wmv
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 10:40 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 730
So that's how it's done! What time are you starting on Saturday? Dallas to Houston isn't all that far ... tempting.
__________________
2003 Boxster - Sold but not forgotten
timothy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 11:07 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,889
Silly me.

Only for Randall, today I asked one of the dealership mechanics what they do when the threads are stripped. He said they put in a time-sert if the customer does not want to pay for a new hub. His does it right on the car with a normal portable drill. He did say the time-sert kits are a bit expensive.
Tool Pants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 11:21 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
Timothy: 9 am. If you leave Dallas at 4:30 am and stop to pee because of all the coffee you're drinking, you'll be in Magnolia on time.

Jeff: I was not expecting you to chime back in and tell me that! Now I'm really pleased I'm trying it.

The Time Sert Kit was $157 plus s/h from Dallas. The inserts themselves were two bucks each. The kit is NOT cheap, that's for sure. However, it's more than a thousand bucks less than replacing the wheel carriers plus all the labor to do it.
__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...

Last edited by RandallNeighbour; 01-31-2008 at 11:23 AM.
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 11:28 AM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bowmanville, Ont
Posts: 295
Thanks for the link. It didn't look like it took much pressure to seat the "cert" judging by the watching the guy's hands in video.
__________________
-- 02 Boxster S
-- Black/Black
-- Sideskirts/PSE
Sputter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 12:08 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 644
Nice video Randall! I put it under my favorites for future reference. It ALMOST makes me want to try it out just for the heck of it!
dcporsche99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2008, 04:28 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,240
Here's the skinny on the repair, which my buddy did for me today very successfully, I might add!

This first pic is a shot of the wheel carrier with the top bolt receiver all torn up. You may not be able to tell, but there are no threads in the top one...




Because the drill bit with the kit was larger and VERY sharp, my buddy decided to step up to the actual drill bit needed for the insert by choosing a smaller bit and drilling it out, then a little larger one, then one that was a tad smaller than the one that came with the kit, then the final one...




Next, the hole had to be tapped for the insert...




Here's a shot of the bolt hole, complete with a reset area for the lip of the insert...




The insert fits into the tapped hole very easily...




The kit comes with an insert tool that seats it and locks it in place at the bottom of the insert...




Voila! The finished product...




If you do a brake job, do buy a Motive bleeder. Wonderful little device! ...




Here's a shot of the rear passenger side, which shows off the new cross drilled rotors and my new brake lines...



I am glad this project is over. It should be stated again that I didn't strip out the bolt receivers, they were rusted and heat-welded in place. What I'm really, REALLY glad I didn't do was try to get them off quickly. It was up and down with a cheater bar and PB Blaster, moving the hex wrench a quarter turn, then up and down again to move the bolt out slooooooowly so it didn't snap off in the wheel carrier.

If I ever meet the guy from the factory that put on my caliper bolts without using anti-seize on them, I'm gonna have to hurt him real bad.

__________________
'97 Boxster (Black Hole for 42,000 Dead Presidents and counting) - 122k
New motor, transmission, suspension, and on and on and on it goes...
RandallNeighbour is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page