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Old 01-10-2008, 04:08 PM   #1
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Track Tire Type and Width

I am just about to get back into tracking my 99 boxster. I track mainly at Streets of Willow Springs (CA) and ButtonWillow (CA) so it can get pretty hot out on the track. I have previously gone with RA1's and liked them (on track specific wheels, 17"). I need to be able to drive to the tracks at the moment (unless anyone knows of a good way to transport tires on the boxster).

I am thinking of going with RA1's again but I have heard of people putting wider than stock tires on to combat understeer on the front and to get a bit more rubber on the back. What are people's thoughts on this? or thoughts on tire choice?

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Old 01-11-2008, 12:29 PM   #2
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For me, the RA1 is a great dual purpose tire. Feel free to use it on track or off. Perhaps just drive a bit slower in the rain They are being phased out in favor of their new R888 tire. See their website www.toyo.com
1) You don't mention what sizes you currently use.. 205/255?
If so, I would try a 225/255 or 225/245 combo to help dial out understeer. Ihad 18"s on mine and ran a 225/275 combo. I think the 275s were too much. Either needed 245s on the front (which wouldn't fit) or 245s on the rear. Then again, I like a car that can be made to oversteer easily.

2) If you like wasting an hour or so changing tires at tn event (mmm lots of fun on hot afternoons ) you might get a small tire trailer. I have seen many over the years. They likely cost $500-800. Can tote 4 wheels and a small box (for tools, jack etc). Check out som autocross forums as they are, i think, more popular with that crowd than the track crowd.
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #3
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Good call on the R888's. They have the 225/45-17 so I think I will go with them...and I am definitely not keen on changing tires at the track...I feel sorry for those guys at the end of a long day of driving when I am heading home!

Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid_J
I feel sorry for those guys at the end of a long day of driving when I am heading home!
I just call them Suckers
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:34 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by racer_d
For me, the RA1 is a great dual purpose tire. Feel free to use it on track or off. Perhaps just drive a bit slower in the rain They are being phased out in favor of their new R888 tire. See their website www.toyo.com
1) You don't mention what sizes you currently use.. 205/255?
If so, I would try a 225/255 or 225/245 combo to help dial out understeer. Ihad 18"s on mine and ran a 225/275 combo. I think the 275s were too much. Either needed 245s on the front (which wouldn't fit) or 245s on the rear. Then again, I like a car that can be made to oversteer easily.

2) If you like wasting an hour or so changing tires at tn event (mmm lots of fun on hot afternoons ) you might get a small tire trailer. I have seen many over the years. They likely cost $500-800. Can tote 4 wheels and a small box (for tools, jack etc). Check out som autocross forums as they are, i think, more popular with that crowd than the track crowd.
When you say the 245 up front wouldn't fit is this because of the wheel width being to narrow to accomodate? Or would it simply not fit in the wheel well without rubbing? I've been thinking of going 245's up front as I have 8.5" wide (17") front wheels.
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:57 PM   #6
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My front 17 rims are only 7" wide so 245's would be too big...for you 245's would probably be fine. 245's are recommended for a 8-9.5" rim (on the toyo website anyway)...
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:44 AM   #7
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? are new shaved tires better than old tires with same tread depth. i'm thinking mostly of side wall performance.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:29 AM   #8
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sorry...I can't give you an expert opinion there 986chris....I would imagine as far as grip you would probably do better with new, shaved tires but for sidewall my WAG is that it would be the same.
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 986chris
? are new shaved tires better than old tires with same tread depth. i'm thinking mostly of side wall performance.
The reason for shaving a tire is to reduce heat build up and tread squirm. Sidewall flex is not affected by shaving a tire or not. Now, another thing to consider in an example

1) you run brand "X" all last track season.. lets say you subjected it to 40 heat cycles.
2) you get brand new set of brand "X" tires, shaved.

Which is better? Well, it is possible that brand "X" has "heat cycled" out of its useful period even though it still has useable tread. If this is the case, then the newer tire will provide better grip, simply because it hasn't been heat cycled as much.


Oh, and as someone asked before, 245s are too wide for a 7" rim. if you already have an 8-8.5" front rim (or maybe all around) 245s would fit fine. Plus you could balance out the wear by rotating tires front/rear, left/right.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:56 AM   #10
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So do street tires "heat cycle" in daily use or is it in just exteme use. And is there away to measure "heat cycles" that a tire can withstand before reduction in performance. Should you use new tires on track first or "vice-versa".
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:49 AM   #11
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All tires experience a "heat cycle" A heat cycle is just the heating up and cooling down of a tire. Now, would you notice degradation on an all season on a camry? not likely, because neither are performance oriented. But over time (age) and use and tire composition, you might notice that the tires on the Camry are not as good in the dry at 30K miles as they were when almost new.

Lots of racers keep all types of data and keeping track of the number of heat cycles a tire is put through is one of them. They will also notice when a tire is "off" compared to a new one. Racers might use an "old" or heat cycles tire in practice, but if available, they would put on new ones (stickers) or just scrubbed in ones for a qualifying session to be a little bit quicker.

Since racers often keep so much data, they will learn that given similar conditions, a "new" tire might be several seconds per lap faster than an older tire that has been heat cycled beyond usefullness.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:02 PM   #12
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I asked a similar question regarding tire selection for daily street driving and track/autox use. Many recommended R888's. According to SportsCar magazine, the magazine for SCCA members, i think it was January's 2008 issue mentioned Bridgestone had the most wins of all other tires for the SCCA races ending the year 2007. Look at the Potenza &/or g-force series.

Furthermore, Michelin makes a good track/street tire with good treadware called Pilot Sport Cup. The last autocross race I did a guy in a 2007 Boxster set the best lap of the day in his class with Michelin PS2's. Lastly, Yokohama Advan Neova AD07 series I hear are decent too but I have not tried them yet. Good luck
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Old 01-15-2008, 09:28 AM   #13
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I have been driving on Falken Azenis RT-615's for the last year and they have been great autocrossing and at the track. I have also driven daily on them. Grassroots Motorsports magazine continually rates them as the best autocross tire. At non-Porsche events you see alot of them but I've yet to see them at a Porsche event. 225/17 in the front and 255/17 in the back fully mounted for $650. I'm due for another set soon. Is there a better deal? Anybody have any negative experience with these?
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:50 AM   #14
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While I have heard good things about the Falken, part of their popularity has to do with there Treadwear rating, part of it their low cost. For some SCCA classes, you must use a certain treadwear rating (say, above 140) and "r"comp tires like RA1/R88s, V710s, and Hoosiers are so sticky that their treadwear rating (often 100 or less.. i think Hoosiers are rated at 20 or 30) disqualifies their use for certain classes.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:50 PM   #15
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I have heard great things about the Falken's; however, they are not going to keep up with the typical R compound tire at autocrosses or at the track simply due to the tread rating. If I wanted the best happy medium of autocross and street tires I would go with the Falken's. I'm not sure what other tires are as good as the Falken's (near the same treadwear rating) that cost even remotely close?
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Old 01-15-2008, 03:03 PM   #16
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Sammy and race_d, I understand and agree with your comments. While I have often wondered how my car would perform on R compounds I also have to drive around on them. Maybe someday I'll get a set of track wheels/tires but in the meantime I believe the Falkens meet my needs and at the price it doesn't hurt so bad to replace them every year. Thanks for validating my thoughts.
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Old 01-15-2008, 04:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve00s
Sammy and race_d, I understand and agree with your comments. While I have often wondered how my car would perform on R compounds I also have to drive around on them. Maybe someday I'll get a set of track wheels/tires but in the meantime I believe the Falkens meet my needs and at the price it doesn't hurt so bad to replace them every year. Thanks for validating my thoughts.
Lets us know what you think of the Falkens both on and off the track. The best pricing I found on the 615's were at www.vulcantire.com. It's hard to beat $500 for a set of 17" tires.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:37 PM   #18
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The $650 I was quoted was at Sears of all places. That included mounting, balancing, tire disposal fee, taxes, etc. I did do two track days and about half a dozen autocross events last year in addition to every day driving and found them to be very capable on the track.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve00s
I have been driving on Falken Azenis RT-615's for the last year and they have been great autocrossing and at the track. I have also driven daily on them. Grassroots Motorsports magazine continually rates them as the best autocross tire. At non-Porsche events you see alot of them but I've yet to see them at a Porsche event. 225/17 in the front and 255/17 in the back fully mounted for $650. I'm due for another set soon. Is there a better deal? Anybody have any negative experience with these?
A friend of mine use to work for Tire Pros. He recommends, to get the best price, shop online for the cheapest price and then goto your local dealer and negotiate for the same rate. Make sure that you ask your local dealer to include road hazard, and weight and balance for the same price too. I tried it and it worked. Good luck.

To All:
According to Grassroots Motorsports magazine Feb 2008 vol 25 #1 p. 80 Bridgestone "Potenza RE-01R became the Street Touring tire to beat in 2007." IMHO if possible I would look for a longer treadware (e.g. 180+) if available since you will be using them for street/track. Hope it helps
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:12 AM   #20
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
When you say the 245 up front wouldn't fit is this because of the wheel width being to narrow to accomodate? Or would it simply not fit in the wheel well without rubbing? I've been thinking of going 245's up front as I have 8.5" wide (17") front wheels.

I have 245 - 17 all around, with wheels of 8.5 front and 9 rears 5 mm spacers there is slight rubbing on inner fender wells at steering lock. Plus I am one inch lower running 2.5 degrees neg camber.

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