Thanks Trump

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by piper6909

"No BS approach"?? HAHA! Every other word out of his mouth is BS!

Over 10,000 documented lies and counting since taking office.

He makes Joe Isuzu like Honest Abe!

Remember Joe Isuzu or am I showing my age?

Yeah, you're showing your age. I said illegal aliens. Illegal. Aliens. Scourge and scum.

10,000 lies is nothing compareed to the blues. You know what they say: How can you tell an attorney is lying? His mouth is open.

What? You only count in red?

Cheers!

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Yeah, you're showing your age. I said illegal aliens. Illegal. Aliens. Scourge and scum.

10,000 lies is nothing compareed to the blues. You know what they say: How can you tell an attorney is lying? His mouth is open.

What? You only count in red?

Cheers!

Scourge & Scum? You really shouldn't talk about the first family that way, but I agree with you!

Seriously, dehumanizing a group of people seeking refuge from hunger, violence, or just seeking a better life for their families doesn't help anyone, especially your own argument.

Unless you're native American, we're all aliens and our founders were illegal aliens.

Besides, aliens legal or otherwise, as Perfectlap so eloquently pointed out, are good for our economy. They do the work we refuse to do.

Yes, politicians lie. But Rumpy is in a class all his own. He's a con-man and there were warning signs everywhere. The stories of the contractors he stiffed, and as a contractor, that hits home for me. The fake university, the real estate deals where he stiffed investors of millions, and so on and so on. And last, but not least, the MAGA dunce caps he sells that are MADE IN CHINA!

Blues lie? How many times did Obama lie to you? But we already went through that. Scroll down.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Seriously, dehumanizing a group of people seeking refuge from hunger, violence, or just seeking a better life for their families doesn't help anyone, especially your own argument.

LOL. Dehumanizing? Are you blind? ILLEGAL aliens. You know, it's in the news. I'm fine with the proper-channel applicants.

LOL. The jobs we don't want to do? You're still buying that narrative? Absent that scourge you just watch how many Americans would step to the plate.

I suppose a program to employ the chronic homeless couldn't fill those "jobs Americans don't want to do" isn't in the cards.

I hear Venezuala is nice this time of year.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Starter986

LOL. Dehumanizing? Are you blind? ILLEGAL aliens. You know, it's in the news. I'm fine with the proper-channel applicants.

LOL. The jobs we don't want to do? You're still buying that narrative? Absent that scourge you just watch how many Americans would step to the plate.

I suppose a program to employ the chronic homeless couldn't fill those "jobs Americans don't want to do" isn't in the cards.

I hear Venezuala is nice this time of year.

YES. Dehumanizing. You called them scourge and scum. They are, by definition, not illegal when they come in for asylum. I'd share my house with some of them over some MAGA dunce-cap racist, nazi, bigot any day.

I'm not saying that you are one of them, and I try not to get personal, but you have problems. When you call an entire population that you know nothing about "scourge and scum", you have problems. I'm not a psych so I don't know if it's xenophobia, anger, hatred, self-loathing, or what. But I'll leave it at that.

Regarding Rump, I actually voted for him. I'm one of those so-called Obama - Trump voters. I overlooked a lot of his loathsome behavior and comments because I thought, "What could it hurt?" and "Minnesota tried Jesse Ventura, they recovered OK." Time to throw a wrench in the works and try something new. I made a grave mistake.

Not a day goes by that I'm sick to my stomach over it. Sometimes every minute of the day. For all his lying and posturing, I never believed that he didn't love America. I never thought he had dictatorship tendencies. But now I know that he loves nothing but himself. He would destroy America to save his hide. And he's demonstrating it every day. I see the reincarnation of Mussolini in this guy. And to think I was one of the voters that helped him win PA. It is probably one of the most regrettable things I've done in my life.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by piper6909

YES. Dehumanizing. You called them scourge and scum. They are, by definition, not illegal when they come in for asylum. I'd share my house with some of them over some MAGA dunce-cap racist, nazi, bigot any day.

I'm not saying that you are one of them, and I try not to get personal, but you have problems. When you call an entire population that you know nothing about "scourge and scum", you have problems. I'm not a psych so I don't know if it's xenophobia, anger, hatred, self-loathing, or what. But I'll leave it at that.

Regarding Rump, I actually voted for him. I'm one of those so-called Obama - Trump voters. I overlooked a lot of his loathsome behavior and comments because I thought, "What could it hurt?" and "Minnesota tried Jesse Ventura, they recovered OK." Time to throw a wrench in the works and try something new. I made a grave mistake.

Not a day goes by that I'm sick to my stomach over it. Sometimes every minute of the day. For all his lying and posturing, I never believed that he didn't love America. I never thought he had dictatorship tendencies. But now I know that he loves nothing but himself. He would destroy America to save his hide. And he's demonstrating it every day. I see the reincarnation of Mussolini in this guy. And to think I was one of the voters that helped him win PA. It is probably one of the most regrettable things I've done in my life.

Now you're losing cred.

They are illegal when they don't seek that shelter at the first country they pass through. So, enough of that BS. Those that get in line... the proper channels... I'm good with that. Unfettered, dig under/climb over that border? Yeah, **************** that.

Yes, I'm the one with the problem. The problem is I'm tired of paying for their ****************, and I'm not alone in that regards. Trump's approval rating is incredible. Further, it's becoming clearer everytime you open your mouth YOU'RE the one who wants to put America second. You're begining to sound like that traitor Obama. The scourge with which you'd rather concern yourself, than Americans, make the news everyday. You know: murder, rape, and robbery. I'll say it: You're the sick-minded one pal. I don't really know you so, please, don't take that personal.

That time to throw a wrench in it long has passed, and Trump already introduced it. The liberal voters had become so immune... so numb to the decade-after-decade regurgitation of political doublespeak the liberals were lapping it up like pablum. And they want more! Even as adults they're still feeding on that tiny spoon. LIberals couldn't wipe their own ass without first making sure there was a regulation to be certain they were doing it right. If it isn't regulated... if there isn't a tax on it... it's ripe for the picking. Didn't the Trump win illustrate for you that the majority of Americans are tired of the decades-long same old-same old?

Yes. Scourge and scum. I won't waver on that. The jobs an American won't do? That position only goes so far. I've never had an illegal work for me. Even if it was an American that cost me more... I absorbed, or passed along that cost. I made it work. Maybe the libs should work on advancing e-verify if their panties are so bunched up. Me thinks there are are more than a few of them that, too, skirt that "law".

As much as a ****************up Trump can be, anything... anything is better than having another Clinton in the house. Truly the liberals are a bunch of dunces. They simply don't have the intelligence to admit it. They can't be wrong. Crybabies. Heaven forbid another dumb, er, dem lands in the house.

You can sound like a very smart person. Likely you live in a gated community, upper-middle class, have money to burn (or aren't paying attention to where it really goes, or don't care), are age 35-42, and have zero clue of what the "general" public faces everyday. Tell me I'm wrong. I'll admit that defeat.

Again, I didn't vote for Trump. Wouldn't vote for another Clinton, least of all Hillary. I don't wear a MAGA hat. Grave mistake? No. You made the better choice. Prepare yourself for another term.

I'm glad that we can share a love of the 986, and would hope that aside from our differing political views and positions, you'd still help me by offering advice when I run into a mechanical problem.

Have a good evening, Sir.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Now you're losing cred.

They are illegal when they don't seek that shelter at the first country they pass through. So, enough of that BS. Those that get in line... the proper channels... I'm good with that. Unfettered, dig under/climb over that border? Yeah, **************** that.

Yes, I'm the one with the problem. The problem is I'm tired of paying for their ****************, and I'm not alone in that regards. Trump's approval rating is incredible. Further, it's becoming clearer everytime you open your mouth YOU'RE the one who wants to put America second. You're begining to sound like that traitor Obama. The scourge with which you'd rather concern yourself, than Americans, make the news everyday. You know: murder, rape, and robbery. I'll say it: You're the sick-minded one pal. I don't really know you so, please, don't take that personal.

That time to throw a wrench in it long has passed, and Trump already introduced it. The liberal voters had become so immune... so numb to the decade-after-decade regurgitation of political doublespeak the liberals were lapping it up like pablum. And they want more! Even as adults they're still feeding on that tiny spoon. LIberals couldn't wipe their own ass without first making sure there was a regulation to be certain they were doing it right. If it isn't regulated... if there isn't a tax on it... it's ripe for the picking. Didn't the Trump win illustrate for you that the majority of Americans are tired of the decades-long same old-same old?

Yes. Scourge and scum. I won't waver on that. The jobs an American won't do? That position only goes so far. I've never had an illegal work for me. Even if it was an American that cost me more... I absorbed, or passed along that cost. I made it work. Maybe the libs should work on advancing e-verify if their panties are so bunched up. Me thinks there are are more than a few of them that, too, skirt that "law".

As much as a ****************up Trump can be, anything... anything is better than having another Clinton in the house. Truly the liberals are a bunch of dunces. They simply don't have the intelligence to admit it. They can't be wrong. Crybabies. Heaven forbid another dumb, er, dem lands in the house.

You can sound like a very smart person. Likely you live in a gated community, upper-middle class, have money to burn (or aren't paying attention to where it really goes, or don't care), are age 35-42, and have zero clue of what the "general" public faces everyday. Tell me I'm wrong. I'll admit that defeat.

Again, I didn't vote for Trump. Wouldn't vote for another Clinton, least of all Hillary. I don't wear a MAGA hat. Grave mistake? No. You made the better choice. Prepare yourself for another term.

I'm glad that we can share a love of the 986, and would hope that aside from our differing political views and positions, you'd still help me by offering advice when I run into a mechanical problem.

Have a good evening, Sir.

Like I said, "I'll leave it at that."

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Now you're losing cred.



They are illegal when they don't seek that shelter at the first country they pass through. So, enough of that BS. Those that get in line... the proper channels... I'm good with that. Unfettered, dig under/climb over that border? Yeah, **************** that.



Yes, I'm the one with the problem. The problem is I'm tired of paying for their ****************, and I'm not alone in that regards. Trump's approval rating is incredible. Further, it's becoming clearer everytime you open your mouth YOU'RE the one who wants to put America second. You're begining to sound like that traitor Obama. The scourge with which you'd rather concern yourself, than Americans, make the news everyday. You know: murder, rape, and robbery. I'll say it: You're the sick-minded one pal. I don't really know you so, please, don't take that personal.



That time to throw a wrench in it long has passed, and Trump already introduced it. The liberal voters had become so immune... so numb to the decade-after-decade regurgitation of political doublespeak the liberals were lapping it up like pablum. And they want more! Even as adults they're still feeding on that tiny spoon. LIberals couldn't wipe their own ass without first making sure there was a regulation to be certain they were doing it right. If it isn't regulated... if there isn't a tax on it... it's ripe for the picking. Didn't the Trump win illustrate for you that the majority of Americans are tired of the decades-long same old-same old?



Yes. Scourge and scum. I won't waver on that. The jobs an American won't do? That position only goes so far. I've never had an illegal work for me. Even if it was an American that cost me more... I absorbed, or passed along that cost. I made it work. Maybe the libs should work on advancing e-verify if their panties are so bunched up. Me thinks there are are more than a few of them that, too, skirt that "law".



As much as a ****************up Trump can be, anything... anything is better than having another Clinton in the house. Truly the liberals are a bunch of dunces. They simply don't have the intelligence to admit it. They can't be wrong. Crybabies. Heaven forbid another dumb, er, dem lands in the house.



You can sound like a very smart person. Likely you live in a gated community, upper-middle class, have money to burn (or aren't paying attention to where it really goes, or don't care), are age 35-42, and have zero clue of what the "general" public faces everyday. Tell me I'm wrong. I'll admit that defeat.



Again, I didn't vote for Trump. Wouldn't vote for another Clinton, least of all Hillary. I don't wear a MAGA hat. Grave mistake? No. You made the better choice. Prepare yourself for another term.



I'm glad that we can share a love of the 986, and would hope that aside from our differing political views and positions, you'd still help me by offering advice when I run into a mechanical problem.



Have a good evening, Sir.

Huh.... I backed ot off this thread because I found myself getting all wound-up in replies I would type and then delete, Haha.
But I lurk a bit.

I gotta admit though: I find almost NOTHING in this quoted post that I don't agree 100% with. I'm sorry guys, I would rarely be so blunt, but he's called it all out correctly.
With perhaps one exception: the idea that being illegal makes one scourge and scum is something I balk at. But those people in ther caravans, breaking international asylum law by walking across multiple countries to get to this once.... yeah: Scourge.
And being here illegally is absolutely a "gateway crime", meaning it leads to more and more crime. Not for all, but for many. It's the natural extension of their chosen path. So yeah: many become scum. (Do not misunderstand: being illegal doesn't make one scum. But when that illegal status then leads them to crime because they can't work legally, that's a problem. Or they'r here illegally sho they can hide while they practice their deviancies yeah, I got a problem.

But I am 100% in favor of making legal status more accessible.... for those who seek it properly. I have no problem with those who come to participate in a great America.

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[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Starter986

They are illegal when they don't seek that shelter at the first country they pass through. So, enough of that BS. Those that get in line... the proper channels... I'm good with that. Unfettered, dig under/climb over that border? Yeah, **************** that.

Yes, I'm the one with the problem. The problem is I'm tired of paying for their ****************, and I'm not alone in that regards. Trump's approval rating is incredible...

a few points...

You aren't "paying for the undocumented" if you don't actually pay any federal income tax. Unless a family of four earn more than $75k they pay no federal income tax. Last I checked only two hardliner states on immigration had household income averaging above $75k. (Wyoming and Idaho if memory serves).
Sure the undocumented consume healthcare, send their kids to public schools and SOME receive public assistance (mostly in sanctuary cities that do well from high income earners). But show me a single wave of European and Eastern European immigrants who never went to a hospital or had kids in school on dirt poor wages. And workers get hurt on the job and need to go to a clinic what's new about that in our history from the industrial revolution onwards? But now it's a problem when it wasn't before? Actually it was a problem before.. you had anti immigration blowhard politicians stirring nativist resentment against the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the "Chinamen", etc. and now it's the Mexican and other Latin Americans turn. Except this time we actually need an immigrant labor force like never before. The current American labor force Participation rate sits at an alarmingly low 62%. Near 40% of this entire country do not work for a living. Then they wonder why we're stuck at 2-3% GDP growth. Can't grow an economy 5 and 6% like in the Bill Clinton 1990's if you don't have enough freaking workers!!

Back to this tax burden you complain about from the undocumented. What exactly do you think happens with the fruits of undocumented labor? It is flipped for "billions and billions" (as professor Trump likes to say) in profits by their employers, mostly in agriculture. Those low wages (for high levels of productivity) is what allows millions of small and medium sized businesses to get to and expand profit margins which they then pay taxes on! Win Win?? Yes! What does the undocumented get for being a block in the creation or successful business? 401K? Health insurance benefit? Paid paternity leave? Vison and dental plan? Carried interest/deferred compensation? Oh yeah that's right he's undocumented... his reward is that his boss won't call ICE if he asks for a 50 cents raise.

The question should be how much more tax you'd be paying if our entire manual labor force up and quit depriving millions of small and medium sized farmers from earning enough to even pay federal income tax. And by the way it's these farmers in these predominantly Republican states that fight adoption of an e-verify mandate in their states. It takes DHS less than a week to verify whether an undocumented worker's papers are bogus or not. But the Republican Congresspersons want nothing to do with any e-verify because these small population states would have no way of replacing that many workers who actually show up every day without a huge increase to their costs. And with Trump's trade war costing the farmers $20 billion in short term agriculture bailouts and billions more in actual lost revenue the last thing they need is to lose their reliable and 100% illegal workforce.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

a few points...



You aren't "paying for the undocumented" if you don't actually pay any federal income tax. Unless a family of four earn more than $75k they pay no federal income tax. Last I checked only two hardliner states on immigration had household income averaging above $75k. (Wyoming and Idaho if memory serves).

Sure the undocumented consume healthcare, send their kids to public schools and SOME receive public assistance (mostly in sanctuary cities that do well from high income earners). But show me a single wave of European and Eastern European immigrants who never went to a hospital or had kids in school on dirt poor wages. And workers get hurt on the job and need to go to a clinic what's new about that in our history from the industrial revolution onwards? But now it's a problem when it wasn't before? Actually it was a problem before.. you had anti immigration blowhard politicians stirring nativist resentment against the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the "Chinamen", etc. and now it's the Mexican and other Latin Americans turn. Except this time we actually need an immigrant labor force like never before. The current American labor force Participation rate sits at an alarmingly low 62%. Near 40% of this entire country do not work for a living. Then they wonder why we're stuck at 2-3% GDP growth. Can't grow an economy 5 and 6% like in the Bill Clinton 1990's if you don't have enough freaking workers!!



Back to this tax burden you complain about from the undocumented. What exactly do you think happens with the fruits of undocumented labor? It is flipped for "billions and billions" (as professor Trump likes to say) in profits by their employers, mostly in agriculture. Those low wages (for high levels of productivity) is what allows millions of small and medium sized businesses to get to and expand profit margins which they then pay taxes on! Win Win?? Yes! What does the undocumented get for being a block in the creation or successful business? 401K? Health insurance benefit? Paid paternity leave? Vison and dental plan? Carried interest/deferred compensation? Oh yeah that's right he's undocumented... his reward is that his boss won't call ICE if he asks for a 50 cents raise.



The question should be how much more tax you'd be paying if our entire manual labor force up and quit depriving millions of small and medium sized farmers from earning enough to even pay federal income tax. And by the way it's these farmers in these predominantly Republican states that fight adoption of an e-verify mandate in their states. It takes DHS less than a week to verify whether an undocumented worker's papers are bogus or not. But the Republican Congresspersons want nothing to do with any e-verify because these small population states would have no way of replacing that many workers who actually show up every day without a huge increase to their costs. And with Trump's trade war costing the farmers $20 billion in short term agriculture bailouts and billions more in actual lost revenue the last thing they need is to lose their reliable and 100% illegal workforce.

We're not helping the situation with hyperbole from both sides. Perfectlap, you make many good points, but you project them across too broad of an expanse. (But you're much closer to reality than the fear- mongering that comes from "my side")

Here's the deal:
As long as legality remains so difficult to attain, we will have illegal immigration. Who can blame them?
As long as there are people willing to hire undocumented workers (objecting to e-verify) we will have low- wage, undocumented workers.
As long as there are central- and- south American illegal immigrants moving 4 families and 11 cars into a single- family home, who don't teach their children why it was so important for them to come to the U.S. in the first place, and who skirt the system and take advantage of the social programs the rest pay for.... yes, there will be animosity.

There needs to be a solution that includes easier access to legal status. There needs to be mandatory e-verify in every work place. This in turn means higher wages for those immigrants, and more access to social programs. It also will allow them to actually PAY-IN to the system, and get something back out of it later.
Get them out of the shadows where they can enjoy the full American dream they came here for. End the resentment on both sides by embracing their new country with love that demonstrates the reasons they came here. End the resentment from the right by letting these immigrants make a decent wage, regulated (and taxed) the same way the rest of the country is.

Our inability or unwillingness to enact reasonable immigration policies has created a caste system every bit as disgusting as those of middle-age Europe. Those immigrants who hide in the shadows and "steal" from our pockets are lower-class citizens in every sense but one: their innate rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They have those rights because they're human; but we aren't letting them exercise them here.

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