Tesla Model S Battery Swap Demonstration

[01SBox]

that's just the EU's, and that's an incredible "novelty" of a number

Originally Posted by thstone

Wait a second! Tesla forecasts 500,000 cars by 2025? Hardly a revolution - still more like a novelty.

[Skrapmot]

I see as many Teslas and Leafs as I see Boxster around town. In the last year they seem to be everywhere. I do think they are aimed at the top 20% of wage earners, which is fine for now.
And many more plugins hybrids, like the Volt and new Prius.
I think it's more realistic for hybrids to take hold, and EU restrictions seem to be pushing auto manufacturers in that direction aggressively.
Don't forget California is requiring that every auto manufacturer have at least 1 in 7 cars sold to be a zero emissions car by 2025, and all the cars sold have to average out at 54.5mpg. They are starting to bring these changes in starting in 2015.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

that's just the EU's, and that's an incredible "novelty" of a number

The US will sell approx. 14M cars per year for the next 10 years for a total of 140,000,000.

500K/140M = 0.0036% (that is 3 tenths of 1%) of the US market is definitely a novelty.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by thstone

The US will sell approx. 14M cars per year for the next 10 years for a total of 140,000,000.

500K/140M = 0.0036% (that is 3 tenths of 1%) of the US market is definitely a novelty.

The internal combustion engine, steam engine, electronics, the computer you are using right now, skyscrapers, domiciles, the wheel... All "novelties" at some point or another.

[thstone]

Hah! Yes, you have a point, but I meant this kind of novelty - the kind that never catch on. The Segway was fun - for a day - and then its novelty wore off. It was a solution in search of a problem - much like the $75,000 electric car.

[particlewave]

Comparing Tesla's to the Segway?!?!
That's just mean spirited!

[01SBox]

LOL! you are comparing the entire US auto sales to EU autosales....in addition, you are comparing ONE vehicle type to the entire US market.

Tesla expects to sell 500,000 Model S' in Europe. Tell me which car from the US even comes close over the same time frame? I don't believe Ford will sell even close to 500,000 f-150's and Mustangs combined. It's an astounding number ($$it is novel$$), and I believe you won't be able to point to one vehicle from the US being sold in Europe that comes even close to that number.

Here's a little more "Novelty" for you...

Top five luxury cars, first quarter 2013

Tesla Model S, 4,750 US sales January-March
Mercedes-Benz S-Class, 3,077
Lexus LS, 2,860
BMW 7 Series, 2,338
Audi A8, 1,462

Here's even more bad news for you... the % of increase of Telsa S' (based on pre-orders) is expected to INCREASE the gap steadily over the next 2 years, and the 5 year projection is even better.

Sorry Guys, The Model S is the number 1 selling luxury car in America, rated the #1 car ever built, and projected to shatter sales records.

Originally Posted by thstone

The US will sell approx. 14M cars per year for the next 10 years for a total of 140,000,000.

500K/140M = 0.0036% (that is 3 tenths of 1%) of the US market is definitely a novelty.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

Sorry Guys, The Model S is the number 1 selling luxury car in America, rated the #1 car ever built, and projected to shatter sales records.

Oh, Cracker Jack!!!

Novel, indeed!


(rednecks in the back grumbling, "grumble, grumble, my truck...grumble, grumble, NASCAR...grumble, grumble, my vroom-vroom")

[01SBox]

Someone very wise once wrote...."Don't let stupid spread".

All "good-natured" kidding aside, the drivers reviews for the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S would indicate strong (cult like) support. Nissan Leaf owners are inventing "quick chargers" and performance upgrades to extend range. As you pointed out, battery technology is poised to jump dramatically.

Nothing in any data suggests this is a fad - every piece of data suggests continued growth, more models from more brands, extended range, more charging stations, and continued government tax (and state) tax incentives to drive electric.

Originally Posted by particlewave

Oh, Cracker Jack!!!

Novel, indeed!


(rednecks in the back grumbling, "grumble, grumble, my truck...grumble, grumble, NASCAR...grumble, grumble, my vroom-vroom")

[thstone]

My other concern about EV's is the electric company monopoly. If (and that is still a big IF) EV's do become mainstream, I fear that the electric utilities will jack up electricity rates. Demand goes up, supply is constant, therefore prices rise dramatically and all we've done is exchange the oil monopoly for the electric monopoly.

[01SBox]

Don't be afraid, thstone, your electric company fears have as much merit as calling the #1 selling luxury car in the US a novelty!

Currently, most electric companies offer discounted rates for ev cars (.07cents/kwh). In addition, companies are selling direct charge solar units that bypass the expense of wiring a solar system thru your house. Many of these solar units are portable. The next generation of panels are so efficient, you can store two days worth of power from a 12 hour day of sun.

If you did have your solar thru your house, you could sell your spare power back to the "monopoly" that you are fearful of.

The solar charging for ev use has been around for years. Hundreds of Nissan leaf owners and Tesla owners are doing it right now as you type.

Originally Posted by thstone

My other concern about EV's is the electric company monopoly. If (and that is still a big IF) EV's do become mainstream, I fear that the electric utilities will jack up electricity rates. Demand goes up, supply is constant, therefore prices rise dramatically and all we've done is exchange the oil monopoly for the electric monopoly.

[Coffinhunter]

Not to jump into this too late, but......

While the exact version of the Tesla/leaf/plug in Prius may not be the future, they are what is driving it. Just like the initial car phone was not the future of mobile communications, it was the driving force of all of our iPhones or Galaxies or whatever. The original "super computers" that got us to the moon were not the future for computers, but they led the way to the iPads/tablets that most people use. The Tesla may not exist in 20 years, but the leaps that they have taken in the advancement of electric performance is not to be laughed at.

Oil is finite. The combustible engine will have to go away at some point. The common misconception is that companies like BP/Shell/Chevron are gas companies. No, they are energy companies, and they know that they can't continue to exist on crude oil forever. They are researching all kinds of alternative energies (I used to work for a major energy company).

Beta recorders did not last long, but we wouldn't have the DVR if not for them.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

Don't be afraid, thstone, your electric company fears have as much merit as calling the #1 selling luxury car in the US a novelty!

Currently, most electric companies offer discounted rates for ev cars (.07cents/kwh). In addition, companies are selling direct charge solar units that bypass the expense of wiring a solar system thru your house. Many of these solar units are portable. The next generation of panels are so efficient, you can store two days worth of power from a 12 hour day of sun.

If you did have your solar thru your house, you could sell your spare power back to the "monopoly" that you are fearful of.

The solar charging for ev use has been around for years. Hundreds of Nissan leaf owners and Tesla owners are doing it right now as you type.

Hah! Just wait until the demand starts going up. Then the electric utilities will have their day - its the way monopolies work (just don't land on Park Place!)

And don't EV solar charging stations cost a least $10K?

[01SBox]

But that's silly. People generate electricity from the wind , solar, river turbines, propane turbines, gas/diesel generators - all from home. When demand goes up, you can choose any number of ways to avoid the monopoly, and you can make the monopoly pay you - people are getting paid for their surplus electric right now.

Don't be afraid, thstone, replace that fear with a little research and book learnin. People are charging their electric cars at home, right now, as I type, from the sun, monopoly free.

And the Tesla is the number 1 selling luxury car in the US, and is projected to continue to be so.

Originally Posted by thstone

Hah! Just wait until the demand starts going up. Then the electric utilities will have their day - its the way monopolies work (just don't land on Park Place!)

[thstone]

Forbes had an interesting story on Tesla. I'm just the messenger, not the author.

"If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money"

If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money - Forbes

[KRAM36]

Is it a myth that it actually pollutes our air worse making the electricity then the cars burning fossil fuel?

[01SBox]

LOL, he gave a glowing review of the car!

Seems he's really upset about the tax incentives. What the author doesn't mention is that the tax credits don't really cost you and I 1 penny.

The money to pay for those tax credits were taken from the millions of dollars offered as tax incentives once offered to oil companies. Now, the administration is shifting from tax credits to revenue generated by oil and gas companies:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130212/OEM11/130219926#axzz2Y4Qj5eSE

thstone, you should be thrilled about his article...you don't like monopolies, and mentioned that big oil was a monopoly..by using funds once offered to big oil, the electric car is breaking up a monoply.

Good read.

Originally Posted by thstone

Forbes had an interesting story on Tesla. I'm just the messenger, not the author.

"If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money"

If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money - Forbes

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Is it a myth that it actually pollutes our air worse making the electricity then the cars burning fossil fuel?

Myth. If you compare how much electricity it takes versus gas used, Nissan leaf basically drives 130miles per gallon of gas. Your average car on gas would need 5.2 gallons to drive the same distance...

[KRAM36]

What a sad world it would be if we all had to drive a Nissan Leaf.

Just as with regular fuel burning cars, there are efficiency factors involved. The Leaf is more efficient then the Tesla Model S.

We'll have better ways to make electricity one day, but the creation of electricity pollutes the air pretty bad at the moment. You also have to factor in the pollution caused from all the rechargeable batteries that go bad.

[01SBox]

You must never had driven one.

My neighbor has one - it's a blast to drive, 100% torque off the line - is very highly rated by consumer reports, and gets high marks for performance and comfort from it's owners. He saves 300/month in gas bills, and is going to buy a solar charger.

In fact, so much fun they put one up against a 2012 911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOIAk8TA6b4

Tesla has plans to go toe to toe with the Leaf with a Sub 40k car...two years away.

Haven't any of you people heard of recycling? Those batteries aren't going into landfills - but if they did, they aren't toxic (like the millions of lead based batteries that do go to landfills). Several companies specializing in lithiom batteries recycling are waiting for the batteries - the cost of recycling the metals in those batteries is cleaner and cheaper than mining for new metals.

Originally Posted by KRAM36

What a sad world it would be if we all had to drive a Nissan Leaf.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

You must never had driven one.

My neighbor has one - it's a blast to drive, 100% torque off the line - is very highly rated by consumer reports, and gets high marks for performance and comfort from it's owners. He saves 300/month in gas bills, and is going to buy a solar charger.

In fact, so much fun they put one up against a 2012 911 2012 Nissan Leaf vs. 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S - CAR and DRIVER - YouTube

Tesla has plans to go toe to toe with the Leaf with a Sub 40k car...two years away.

Haven't any of you people heard of recycling? Those batteries aren't going into landfills - but if they did, they aren't toxic (like the millions of lead based batteries that do go to landfills). Several companies specializing in lithiom batteries recycling are waiting for the batteries - the cost of recycling the metals in those batteries is cleaner and cheaper than mining for new metals.

lol, Leaf against a 911, lol. That was funny. In stock form the Leaf (as the video said) is like driving a microwave.

I don't think the guy in the vid had any fun driving the Leaf until they stuck the race tires on it and that takes away what the car is meant to be, a daily driver.

I'll stick with my Boxster, thank you.