Co2

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by Lordblood

I think you misunderstood what I said was not up to debate. CO2 will rise in temperature if it finds IR light to absorb, no question about it. I can show you an IR spectrum of CO2 to prove it if you so wish.

The real argument lies in what you mentioned about the role of the sun, and on top of that the abundance of other gasses in the atmosphere having a role. In addition, the real reason CO2 poses a problem is because it absorbs a certain type of light that coincidentally is emitted by all living things (night vision is basically a camera that detects IR light). This means a population increase would also contribute to global warming. And lastly, how all of this will contribute to global warming as numbers. Will we see a 5 degree Celsius increase (this would be enough to do major damage) or .01 degree increase? You are most definitely right, CO2 is not the only culprit; many people (including me) believe it is the one that is most controllable.

On the government, I also do not want an overbearing government; there are real dangers in giving too much power to such a corrupt institution. However, I also believe that there are certain things that cannot be governed by the private sector. For instance, having a private army would not be efficient, neither would having a private public transportation system. I think the government would be most efficient in running regulations on the environment, because as of now it does not make financial sense for the private sector to change on their own. Businessmen aren't corrupt, but they are definitely maximizers.

I try to stay civilized about these debates. I think rational people should be able to discuss ideas without getting into a fight.

I thank you for your contributions and civil discourse. I am sure you are correct on your assessment of the role that CO2 plays in our overall climate. I am just not convinced that it alone is a factor. Again I submit the heating and cooling over the centuries when there were little or no human influence at the risk of becoming boring but there it is. There is also an assumption that our current mean temperature is the ONLY temp. that is good for everything and has to be maintained. This is quite impossible for the reason I just cited above, climate changes on its own without human influence.

As for the roll of govt. being "most efficient" in running regulations I have yet to see the govt. run anything efficiently or even competently. It is a vast money absorbing and spending machine intent on increasing its power, at least in my observations and humble opinion. The only thing that works is the military if it is not being misused by bespoke politicians.

The day Algore gives up his corporate jet, massive home and NObama cuts back on his fuel consuming trips home and abroad and run their refrigerators off of solar or wind only, I remain skeptical as do many others including a number in the scientific community. Some maintain the temp has NOT risen in a number of years. I guess it depends on whose data is gathered and if was funded by a govt. grant or not. Who really knows?

Again, this has been an interesting civil debate at least to this point. Let's hope it stays this way if it continues at all. I think many minds are already made up.


AKL

[Johnny Danger]

AKL,

Be careful not to come into contact with this form of gas . It contains the very rare and exotic elements of DO2; danger dioxide . Scientists won't disclose this, but it's known to stimulate a person's erogenous zones.

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

AKL,

Be careful not to come into contact with this form of gas . It's contains the very rare and exotic elements of DO2; danger dioxide . Scientists won't disclose this, but it's known to stimulate a person's erogenous zones.

Great photo of a squashed Halloween mask. You can make out the mouth and nose at the bottom but only one eye is discernible. Either that or some quick shots of fresh road kill. Keep up the good work J.D. Good to see you are getting out more.

AKL

[thstone]

"(night vision is basically a camera that detects IR light). "

Let's be careful in using terms so we don't confuse anyone - there are actually three types of technology used for night vision:

The technology that most people call "night vision" works by amplifying the very low level of visible ambient light that our eyes cannot detect. A better name for this technolgy is "light amplification". This technology creates the classic "green" scene images that we've all seen from the military. The military likes this approach because it is passive in nature and will not give away a soldiers position.

Alterntively, other night vision devices use an energy source (just out of the visible range in either near-wave IR or UV) to illuminate a scene in a wavelenth that humans cannot see. This is an active technology and is kind of like mounting your old hippie black light from your garage to a camera that detects the black light. Obviously the military doen't like this approach because this type of device can be easily dectected by an IR or UV sensor which would immediately give away your position but it is useful for other situations and can provide very good quality images because there is an actual source of energy illuminating the scene. These images are characteristically black and white (not green) with a bright spot (more white) where the illuminator energy is strongest.

Otherwise, true IR cameras detect heat or thermal energy and can be used for night vision but only objects with different temperatures can be resolved. This can be helpful when searching for a Sasquatch (hot) in a forest where the ave temp of the background forest is colder than the Big Foot or any other hot blooded animal but many objects can go undetected or unresolved because they are same or close to the same in temperature as the surrounding background (e.g. cold blooded animals or made made objects). These images are recognizable by their wide range of full colors (red, yellow, green, and blue) with bright red being the warmest and dark blue being the coldest.

[Perfectlap]

The other issue that is rarely concentrated on is how burning fossil fuels at these global levels dumps unprecedented amounts of mercury into the enviorment. That ends up in the air you breathe, the water you drink and the fish you eat. Warming or no warming.

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

The other issue that is rarely concentrated on is how burning fossil fuels at these global levels dumps unprecedented amounts of mercury into the enviorment. That ends up in the air you breathe, the water you drink and the fish you eat. Warming or no warming.

to say nothing of all the mercury in those new ugly light bulbs we are now going to be required to buy. Just don't break one when the children are around or you be in for it. Keep a chemical suit ready for your home cleanup. Looks like we are all dead in the end anyway. :ah:

AKL

[tonycarreon]

Originally Posted by Allen K. Littlefield

to say nothing of all the mercury in those new ugly light bulbs we are now going to be required to buy. Just don't break one when the children are around or you be in for it. Keep a chemical suit ready for your home cleanup. Looks like we are all dead in the end anyway. :ah:

AKL

the amount of mercury in a CFL is around 125 times less than the amount of mercury used in your old-style lever operated thermostat. have you replaced those yet?

[Lordblood]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

The other issue that is rarely concentrated on is how burning fossil fuels at these global levels dumps unprecedented amounts of mercury into the enviorment. That ends up in the air you breathe, the water you drink and the fish you eat. Warming or no warming.

In addition to carbon dioxide fossil fuel combustion emits sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide- all of which makes water more acidic, and it all comes back down as acid rain, which has proven to change environments drastically. There are plenty of reasons to move away from fossil fuels (and combustion in general) other than global warming.

[Allen K. Littlefield]

Originally Posted by Lordblood

In addition to carbon dioxide fossil fuel combustion emits sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide- all of which makes water more acidic, and it all comes back down as acid rain, which has proven to change environments drastically. There are plenty of reasons to move away from fossil fuels (and combustion in general) other than global warming.

Then can we assume you have gotten rid of all your vehicles that use fossil fuel? How about your electric, does it come from coal or oil? If so have you disconnected from the line. Kinda like Al Gore riding around in his private jet complaining about carbon footprint. If all of you advocates would give up your use of fossil fuels we all would be better off, no? Until that time....

AKL

[Lordblood]

Originally Posted by thstone

"(night vision is basically a camera that detects IR light). "

Let's be careful in using terms so we don't confuse anyone - there are actually three types of technology used for night vision:

The technology that most people call "night vision" works by amplifying the very low level of visible ambient light that our eyes cannot detect. A better name for this technolgy is "light amplification". This technology creates the classic "green" scene images that we've all seen from the military. The military likes this approach because it is passive in nature and will not give away a soldiers position.

Alterntively, other night vision devices use an energy source (just out of the visible range in either near-wave IR or UV) to illuminate a scene in a wavelenth that humans cannot see. This is an active technology and is kind of like mounting your old hippie black light from your garage to a camera that detects the black light. Obviously the military doen't like this approach because this type of device can be easily dectected by an IR or UV sensor which would immediately give away your position but it is useful for other situations and can provide very good quality images because there is an actual source of energy illuminating the scene. These images are characteristically black and white (not green) with a bright spot (more white) where the illuminator energy is strongest.

Otherwise, true IR cameras detect heat or thermal energy and can be used for night vision but only objects with different temperatures can be resolved. This can be helpful when searching for a Sasquatch (hot) in a forest where the ave temp of the background forest is colder than the Big Foot or any other hot blooded animal but many objects can go undetected or unresolved because they are same or close to the same in temperature as the surrounding background (e.g. cold blooded animals or made made objects). These images are recognizable by their wide range of full colors (red, yellow, green, and blue) with bright red being the warmest and dark blue being the coldest.

Thanks for the information, I'm not very educated in military technology myself and it was unwise to use it as an example. However, I think you understand what I was trying to say.