Spark plug tubes

[tommy583]

I got the ones with the rings. I also replaced all six. Cheap enough to do them all, because the ones that aren't leaking now will sooner than later i figured.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by kk2002s

A bit of a revised thread
Getting ready to order new plug tubes. Question to those who did this, do you do all 6 as a matter of course when only 1 or 2 actually leak?
I have 2 with minimal leaking, both driver's side, but I am of the mind set that I should just bite the bullet and do all 6

Also I'm ordering from Pelican:
Porsche originals, which need rubber seals separately
Or non-Porsche which include rubber seals

Opinions welcome

I did all 6 even though only 2 (the front ones) were seeping badly. I got the ones from Pelican that had the O-rings included, that were non Porsche brand, the ones for $5.25 that were "German".

When I had the car at a shop earlier this year they told me I had leaking at both sides, less than 1,000 miles after replacing them. I think they saw residue from when they were seeping before (I didn't really clean up that good but I did clean underneath where it was dripping down to and haven't seen any new oil there). I haven't had a chance to get in there and see for myself but I will do so the next time I have the rear wheels off. They said that the Porsche O-rings were the best. But if you buy the Porsche tubes off Pelican you have to get the O-rings separately and they sell the Victor Reinz O-rings. Auto Atlanta sells the Porsche O-rings and tubes as well.

If I had to do them again because they were still leaking I would spring for the more expensive Porsche ones, but I think mine are fine and the tech was just seeing the residue from the previous seepage.

[healthservices]

If I cheap out (I do that a lot...) I replace as a minimum, just the 12 - O rings if not all the tubes with the o rings. but I always replace all.

[clickman]

Here's my el-cheapo tube removal and re-insertion tools, made from what I found laying around:





I just turn the pvc cap into the tube for a few turns, then grab it and yank.

The wood block is used to pop the new tube in.

[clickman]

Here's what a 119k km (75k mile) 13 year-old o-ring looks like compared to a new one (on the right). Hopefully that explains my leaks.

The width of the o-ring groove on the tube looks overly generous, allowing spreading of the o-ring. A narrower groove might keep the o-ring effective for longer.

[Tucker2]

I use a rubber core to a drill-press cylinder sander. It was so-so until I realized I could put a small piece of sand-paper around the core and then expand it and *bam*.....easy as can be.

I like the wood block idea to push them back in. Busted my knuckles up a bit when I just used my fingers.

[mikesz]

Congrats on the new to you Boxster. I have a 99 same colors and the HT and speedster humps. I tried to remove the tubes with mixed results. I bought the transom plug from a boat supplier it worked for all but one. I tried to use a screw driver to get stubborn one out and broke a piece off and fell into the engine. Since my valve covers were leaking anyway had it towed to mechanic and had him replace valve cover gasket and get piece of plastic out while doing so. My experience is 1) dealer replacement tubes are much better quality than the no-name brands 2) it is recommended that the engine be warm and therefore tubes are warm prior to removing and I would agree (I did not heed this advice) 3) transom plug would have worked better had engine been warmed up and had a slotted socket to tighten the transom plug also it worked much better once I wrapped a piece of sand paper around it to get a bite on the inner part of the tube. I think the method I would use is the bolt and washer seems to me to have a better chance of not damaging the tube. But hindsight is always 20/20. Keep us posted!

[Viper10000]

I used a pair of snap ring pliers that expand when you squeeze the handles. It may crack your old tube if you are too forceful but i just gave mine a circular motion when squeezing along with pulling and mine popped right out.

[Shadow_40]

I am a noob to Porsche maintenance (though not to car and engine work in general)

I have oil all over my head cover area (both sides) and am having to add 1 litre of oil every 300 miles or so, so I ordered a tube of sealant to refit the head covers, a set of plug tubes and seals. It's a 2002 Boxster S by the way.

having found this thread I suspect I might have wasted some money on the sealant. Do you good folks think just replacing my plug tubes will fix the problem or do I actually need to remove, clean and refit my head covers? (I mean is it likely all my oil loss is from the plug tubes/O-rings?)

If I fitted the tubes and seals and found that my head covers were leaking would the plug tubes be reusable or need replacing again?

[healthservices]

Originally Posted by Shadow_40

I am a noob to Porsche maintenance (though not to car and engine work in general)



If I fitted the tubes and seals and found that my head covers were leaking would the plug tubes be reusable or need replacing again?

No sealant is used when installing the sparkplug tubes so yes they can be reused


Please note that if you decide to remove the valve cover there is a danger of the cams falling out without something to hold the cams in place. And yes you can make a simple tool to hold those in too.

[Heiko]

Originally Posted by Shadow_40

I am a noob to Porsche maintenance (though not to car and engine work in general)

I have oil all over my head cover area (both sides) and am having to add 1 litre of oil every 300 miles or so, so I ordered a tube of sealant to refit the head covers, a set of plug tubes and seals. It's a 2002 Boxster S by the way.

If that much oil leaks out every 300kms you must be able to see where its coming from... if not wash the outer cam shells off (or spray them down good with brake clean) and see where the oil comes from.... If the tubes leak just replace the tubes (they should come with new O-rings) The old rings get hard after a while and don't seal well... common issue... IF the oil is leaking at the cam shell seam itself you will need a proper cam hold down tool before you attempt to loosen off the shell (its not just a cover) as its actually the outer support housing for the cams.
H

[Shadow_40]

Thanks for the info guys you've saved me from making a serious mistake!

I'll change the tubes, clean the engine up, monitor oil level and look for signs of further leaks.

[newBgeek]

Another happy bolt user here. Had a leftover 6" lag bolt from my deck project and sandwiched an oil drain plug gasket between 2 nuts. Worked great. Was able to remove all tubes safely, installed new o-rings, then re-install tubes. Make sure the engine is warm and pry at an angle like healthservices said. Thanks healthservices!

[flaps10]

If anyone needs the tool to hold their cams when valve covers (sorry, i can't adapt to calling them head covers) are off, i have the one i created during my engine tear down. It works perfectly.

Drop me a pm with address

[Gelbster]

There are some very useful comments by JFP on the Spark Plug Tube Seal leakage issue here:
https://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/50967-spark-plug-tube-seal-leaks/?_fromLogin=1#replyForm
I have recently had to research this issue exhaustively and JFP's comments are to be found no where else that I found.

[Pdwight]

Be sure and lubricate the new O rings with proper O ring lubricant, not motor oil. Instead of the super expensive Porsche brand lubricant I used Parker Super O ring lubricant.....get a tube and you will be surprised at how often you use it in the shop. oil Changes or any time an O ring is in use

[Gelbster]

Note on lubricating O ring seals -see link above.
Use silicone grease. Don't use engine oil because it is not as slippery,nor as thixotropic.
Do NOT lubricate the entire seal,nor the groove in the tube . Fit the seals to the tube DRY .
Lubricate just the leading edge and outer surface of the seal sparingly. Otherwise the seal will twist and roll as you push it in the final 2mm. That would probably leak .If the seal slides out of the groove(because it is oily) in the tube, it will also leak.
Measure the leading edge groove in the tube for out of round before you fit the seal. A difference of 1/2mm may cause a leak.
If you use sealant of any sort, you will be doomed to leaks and worse.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Note on lubricating O ring seals -see link above.
Use silicone grease. Don't use engine oil because it is not as slippery,nor as thixotropic.
Do NOT lubricate the entire seal,nor the groove in the tube . Fit the seals to the tube DRY .
Lubricate just the leading edge and outer surface of the seal sparingly. Otherwise the seal will twist and roll as you push it in the final 2mm. That would probably leak .If the seal slides out of the groove(because it is oily) in the tube, it will also leak.
Measure the leading edge groove in the tube for out of round before you fit the seal. A difference of 1/2mm may cause a leak.
If you use sealant of any sort, you will be doomed to leaks and worse.

And be very careful with aftermarket tubes, many of them vary wildly in both size and concentricity as users have found to their dismay. Cheap ain't always a positive.

[jakeru]

At 120k miles, I changed my 2001 boxster 2.7's spark plugs yesterday, and replaced all the tube o-rings, whether they were leaking or not (to reduce chance of future leakage). Below in-flight picture offers a glimpse at the carnage...


To remove the tubes, I used the T-handle, rubber expansion "transom plug" discussed above. I didn't make the special tool to tighten the handle with a wrench - just used my hands. (I may have a bit more forearm strength than average, though, and my fingers are sore now... lol!)

Initially, I tried tightening and then pulling on the handle. This never worked, and the plug always slipped out of the tube (I had cleaned the interior of the tube, so it was dry.). What worked was to keep tightening the t-handle until the tube rotated. This broke the static friction of the o-rings free, and then the tube would practically fall right out if even the smallest outward force was applied. The transom plug preserved the original (genuine Porsche) tubes, so they could be re-used. I just replaced the o-rings on mine (using genuine Porsche o-rings, which weren't as expensive as one might guess!)

I feel cleaning and lubricating the conical and cylindrical outer o-ring sealing surface on the cylinder head is imporant, so I did that, in addition to lubricating the outer surfaces of the o-rings discussed here (although I just used motor oil, rather than silicone grease discussed here). The new tubes just snapped right into place by hand - no tools required, no drama.

Most of my time was spent cleaning parts. The cylinder head covers were filthy. Didn't get a "before" picture, but here's sort of an after:

Having these surfaces cleaned will make any future wrenching around these areas of the car so much more enjoyable!

I also cleaned and closely inspected the coil packs. They all looked perfect - no cracks and pretty indistinguishable from brand new after being cleaned up. A couple however, had damaged rubber lip, which I got a picture of and part number, but if the only purpose of the lip is to guide onto the plug, it may not be important to replace:

Thoughts?

The old spark plugs were absolutely horrendous to remove. Dry, squeaking, carbon-contaminated threads. Probably coked up oil, from the plug sealing washer not working perfectly. Required nearly as much "free-removal" torque, as the initial break-away! I was relieved there was no galled aluminum in the threads of the removed plugs.


On the new plugs, I used a light coating of anti-seize. Whoever at Bosch is recommending installing these plugs dry, should be shot. (Why wouldn't anti-size, with the metallic particles, conduct electricity?). The new plugs with light anti-seize coating hand-threaded in, and brought up to full torque spec like a dream! And the car also is running like a dream...


The old plugs had noticeable worn "conical shaped" center electrodes, (below shown below next to fresh plug), and the side electrodes were also burned away a little bit.

The wear maybe a bit much, or acceptable at time of replacement? Usually, the engine didn't seem to have any missing problem...

On the passenger side, I encountered one torn boot on the coil electrical connector:

What would be required to replace this? (Is replacement boot available or need whole harness)

I put a little dielectric grease on both the spark plug electrical terminal, and the male coil pack connector conductors. I did some other maintenance work at pretty close to the same time, the car is running stronger than ever now. Maybe waiting this long (120k, and not sure if these plugs were ever replaced by previous owner) is too long to replace? Jacking the car up, and removing all the shields and rear tires required to access the plugs makes the job a bit not-so-simple. Glad to have it done!

[Gelbster]

The one size fits all removal tool suggestion may not work.
I have used several different brands of 'O' rings. They vary in 2 important ways.
1. Out of the packet they may vary in thickness,i.d. and o.d. between brands.
2. Some swell substantially after just a few heat cycles.
This may explain why many find the transom plug tool useless.
The tool that always works - even with swollen seals is the long bolt plus washer.
The easiest seal+tube combo I have encountered is OEM Porsche. The 'fatest' ,most difficult are URO. But the URO sure did not leak ! But wow ,the force required to extract was alarming.
The long bolt + washer will always work, the Transom Plug only sometimes.