Oil Starvation

[jsceash]

The keys to LN Engineerings design are they raise the windage tray (Baffle) allowing more oil capasity at the sump pick up. Then they lower the sump pick up to take advantage of that extra Supply.

[jaykay]

I put in the Mantis deep sump. My 3.2 already has the 996 swirl pots. The windage tray ( horizontal!) had to be cut out to get them through the tray. This one is the new version; all one piece. It gives an extra 1.5 L. Ground clearance is excellent. Hopefully this will resolve oiling issues until I run R comps

[Brad Roberts]

Deep sump spacer by itself is quite ineffective IMO.

Worthless.. and so is deep sump.

X51 pan (Porsche's fix) and/or Accusump.

Don't believe me? Track me down at PCA club races nationwide and I'll show you data

Topless is correct (he has a lot of track time on His Boxster) ANY track with banking will cause the oil pressure to drop a min. of 30lbs. IT DOES NOT lose pressure down to ZERO (data logging)

Funny part? I have a 2.5 we have tracked since Mid 05 (a lot) and it has the stock pan and data lol

B

[Brad Roberts]

I have a Mantis deep sump for sale if anyone is looking for one.. LOL came off a BLOWN engine I'd gladly part with it.

Anyone recall the first version from Mantis? You know? the one where they dropped the pan with a spacer but did not extend the pickup.. leaving pickup sucking air on high G corners?

POS



B

[Brad Roberts]

Wingnut?? Dallas?? How are you??

[jaykay]

The one I have has the pick up extension down past the windage tray. It is a one piece. Just developed I believe. I would be interested in any data/experience you have with this..The next step would be an accusump

I have noted some saying the X-51 baffle is pointless without the rest of Porsche's system ie special scavange pumps etc. Perhaps an accusump can make up for this...but for how long? I am not aware of the reasons why but I would guess it because it looks like oil is susceptible to escape around the high lateral baffles over the low fore and aft baffles....just a guess

[Brad Roberts]

I have a car we are building an engine for that does not have the X51 (and has data) I'll make it point to ping you back with what I find when the new engine goes in with data.

Typically.. I hear people comment about the X51 and say "it only works with the other pieces".. those are typically 996/997 people. Having the engine hanging off the ass end of the car presents another set of oiling issues. I believe.. the X51 helps out a LOT. Can it be better? yes, but for a simple bolt on that is easy to purchase? It works very well.

The X51 keeps the oil from going around the "walls" it seals to the crank case on 4 corners where as the stock pan does not seal.. the oil can go around the plastic walls in a high G corner.

With an S? I'd be more worried cracked heads and IMS failure!!


B

[jaykay]

Thanks that is interesting info on the X-51! I may consider moding to work with my stuff. I was not aware of special oiling issues on 996/997s

I have ceramic dual row retro fit in there now; hoping this will be enough!

Not sure how to stave off cracked heads other than pressure bleeding after cooling system work...as in changing the water pump

[Brad Roberts]

I used to talk with Charles 1-2 a times a month (since 2000) but ever since I hooked him up with one of the major wholesalers in our industry... I don't hear from him anymore

[thstone]

I'm planning on driving AutoClub Speedway (Fontana) Roval course on 11/20 with my existing street tires (treadwear rating 180). I usually go into Turn 1 at about 125mph and maintain 120+mph through Turn 2. I've been there four days previously this year with no problems. Ok to go one more time with the stock oil setup?

[Brad Roberts]

You'll be fine I'll probably be at the event with a customer car or two.

Most of the Texas BoxsterSpec cars are running Accusumps, but very few of them here in CA.

Did you data log 120? On the Hoosiers I see 132-133 in T2 (In a Spec car)



B

[insite]

another note on oil starvation:

there is a piston/spring assembly inside the oil pump that varies oil pressure with temperature. when the car is cold, it's designed to increase the pressure to around 100psi. once the car warms up, it backs off to 'normal'.

my car was running about 16-17psi (hot) at idle, which seems low to me. on a hunch, i ordered a new piston & spring. interestingly, the new piston has a chamfered edge whereas the original piston had a sharp edge. this leads me to believe that porsche suspected some binding of the piston assembly in some instances......

at any rate, with the new piston / spring installed, the car is now at 23psi hot. i never logged the oil pressure under load, so i have no idea what (if any) effect it has on pressure at RPM, but i certainly feel a little better. loss of oil pressure at temp is a big concern in the M96. anything that reduces the risk to that end is a win in my book. cost is less than $20 and you can do it in 5 minutes when you change your oil.

FYI, part numbers are:

Piston: 997.107.125.01 ($ 5.00)
Spring: 996.107.127.53 ($10.00)
Gasket: 996.107.123.50 ($ 2.00)

[jaykay]

Yes I remember this thing really wondered about what it actually does. I thought it was at the front of the engine and really hard to get to. There is an old post on here with a schematic. No idea on how search for it.

I seem to recall that it appeared to modulate the volume oil delivered by the pump. Good to know that there is boost in oil pressure when starting up. Guess you guys with an accusump could perhaps watch the accumulator modulate depending on what air pressure you put in there to test this thing??

[insite]

very easy to get to. it's on the bottom of the oil pump facing downward. it really does take only a minute to change. you're right about the accusump; the first time i fired the car up w/ the accusump, i though the gage broke!

schematic photo of oil pump (change items 5, 25 & 26):

[insite]

here's an actual pic. spring guide bolt circled in red.

[ChrisZang]

VERY interesting!

Would you think that this could be the possible solution to my "low oil pressure on the track" problem? http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/29545-low-oil-pressure-track.html

In a nutshell: Oil pressure drops mid-session

Thanks
Chris

Originally Posted by insite

another note on oil starvation:

there is a piston/spring assembly inside the oil pump that varies oil pressure with temperature. when the car is cold, it's designed to increase the pressure to around 100psi. once the car warms up, it backs off to 'normal'.

my car was running about 16-17psi (hot) at idle, which seems low to me. on a hunch, i ordered a new piston & spring. interestingly, the new piston has a chamfered edge whereas the original piston had a sharp edge. this leads me to believe that porsche suspected some binding of the piston assembly in some instances......

at any rate, with the new piston / spring installed, the car is now at 23psi hot. i never logged the oil pressure under load, so i have no idea what (if any) effect it has on pressure at RPM, but i certainly feel a little better. loss of oil pressure at temp is a big concern in the M96. anything that reduces the risk to that end is a win in my book. cost is less than $20 and you can do it in 5 minutes when you change your oil.

FYI, part numbers are:

Piston: 997.107.125.01 ($ 5.00)
Spring: 996.107.127.53 ($10.00)
Gasket: 996.107.123.50 ($ 2.00)

[ChrisZang]

So,

if I want to go the X51 route do I need both: the baffle AND the oil pan
or is the X51 oil pan identical to a standard oil pan?

Originally Posted by Wingnut2u

This is a reply from Suncoast Porsche
Deep Sump Oil Pan Spacer, when is it required? - 6speedonline.com Forums

[IMG]http://www.****************************************************.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/x51oilpan.jpg[/IMG]

See those little rubber flaps hanging down? That's what makes the X51 oil pan unique, the flaps open & close during significant oil shifts. The force of the shifting oil closes the flap, and helps to keep oil in the center chamber for an extended amount of time. Since these flaps are not installed on most models, oil can rush out of the center chamber under extreme conditions and bam.......the oil pick-up tube has no oil. This piece has been very effective, and a great alternative to replacing an entire engine. Driving these cars to the extremes does have it's risks, but this should help to reduce that risk.

The X51 pan can be modified to fit most late model cars, there is an edge on the vertical bracket which has to be cut to clear the inner components (I have a templete with dimensions). A mechanic should be able to make the modifications with a grinder. It can be fitted on any Boxster, Cayman, or 1999+ Carrera (not required for Turbo, GT2, or GT3 models).

[insite]

Originally Posted by ChrisZang

VERY interesting!

Would you think that this could be the possible solution to my "low oil pressure on the track" problem? http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/29545-low-oil-pressure-track.html

In a nutshell: Oil pressure drops mid-session

since you're seeing a drop on straights as well as in the corners, i think it's absolutely possible.

also, not sure if you have an S. if you don't, upgrade to the S oil cooler. hot oil gets thin & pressure drops.

[The Radium King]

here is an option to get an x-51 style baffle in your car for a few less $$$, and without having to modify ...

New Oil Baffle - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

[Brad Roberts]

Heat is the reason the oil pressure is dropping. Waste of time to change out that spring. Add 3rd radiator/BoxsterS water lines to the 2.5 car.