HP is Overrated
 

I don't necessarily agree with the title of this post, but there is an interesting article in MotorTrend that talks about the complaints regarding the Cayman/Boxster HP. Ultimately, the point is the car is perfect the way it is, don't fret over the HP.

I am attaching a scanned version, might be hard to read b/c I had to reduce the size to get the file uploaded.



http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q176/drburton/IMG_0002.jpg

there is no way i can read that man

Please convert it to 16 color gray scale and upload again, the size will be reduce to at least 1/5.

Good read Drburton, thanks for posting (just save the picture and zoom it up a little in any windows pic reader/editor).

I agree with two of his opinions...the base 987/C7 is a blast to drive and the basic CD24 is a piece of crap.

I was able to read it...thanks for posting. I agree, it made for a good read.

Very good, although eye-straining, read.


Makes me feel better about my car, assuming the Cayman and base 987 are interchangeable :p



I gave her a lot of work today.

Very good read. HP is a bit over rated. When running from stop light to stop light its fun, but I like turning better than going straight.

Yesterday I woke up early and headed out into the country. I put the top down and hit my favorite motorcycle roads for the first time in my Boxster. It was amazing. I could feel the wheels gripping and pulling, taking each turn as it was meant to be taken. Braking, down shifting, swinging into the turn, and accelerating through the apex I felt like the Boxster was having the time of her life.

I am so glad I bought a Boxster. :cheers:

Oh, and I like in the article where the author says that every true sports car should have a crap stereo. hahahaha.

They are right. I run regular gas in my car so that its HP is a bit down, where I like it!

my two cents
HP is addressed for two types of sports car buyers:

Sports car DRIVERS (those who partake in at least one DE, Driving instruction,
time trial, atucross, etc.)

and those who have never really turned the steering past 90 degrees, WOT in straight lines only. Let's call these sports car owners/enthusiasts.


Porsche doesn't put enough power in their cars when you look at the car market in general. This is glaringly obvious. The cars are fine as they are but its clear that they are manipulating horsepower and HP delivery, gearing etc. in an artificial manner to suit their interests and not really those of the sports car drivers and sports car owners.

1-Why does the CaymanS have an inexplicably tall 1st gear? So it doesn't beat the heavier 911's 0-60 time.

2-Why doesn't the Boxster still have HP well into the 300HP range when BMW and Merc are already offering this to their customers? We know why....

3-Why are all the non GT/Turbo 911's underpowered? So that the standard Carrera owners always have something to trade up to and Porsche can continue making boat loads of cash for cars that are pricey for what you get (true of all Pcars).

But given the underpowered issue at Porsche, most people complaining that this car doesn't have enough power or that car doesn't have enough power fall into a category: THose who demmand more power yet don't have the high performance driving skill to come withing 90% of a car's the lowest possible lap time at any given track. It's like the deer hunter that complains his assault weapon doesn't have enough firepower to take out an 80 pound deer. Your basically talking to a poser.

Regardless, I always welcome more HP :D



Porsche could sure use some hp upgrades. They have been using the same engines for a long time now. Might be time for new engines?



It's not like Porsche is stranger to having the fastest cars on the road. For a long time, Porsche DID hold claim to that title.



270hp for a base Boxster/Cayman, 325 hp for a Boxster S/Cayman S...and we're good :P

Sounds good to me, but then the Boxster might not be the cheap girlie car anymore.

But, before I take the HP bump, I would like to take care of that little pesky RMS issue.

gotta call BS on that. More HP is fun, any way you slice it. I think the real poser is the guy who crows from the monuntaintop about his great lap times like he is Juan Pablo Montoya or something. That sounds like a "my dick is bigger than yours" comment to me. I have not taken my car to the track, but it sure is more fun to drive with the extra HP. You can really powerslide it. Torque oversteer I believe they call it. That is FUN.

Say it S-L-O-W-L-Y. More HP is fun. There is no argument that can be made against it. Does that mean a Vette is a better car than the Box? Of course not. But if you ask 100 sports car people is they want more or less HP, you know what they are going to say, don't you?

of course everyone wants more power. It's like your boss asking you if you want more money? Who is going to say no to that?

But you can't have everyone at work making the boss's salary can you?
The boss gives you more money and then you get used to it and
what comes next? You want more money.
HP is the same, they give you 300HP coming from a 180 HP car you think
this is awesome. But then you get used to 300HP and want more. It doesn't end
until you are in a Z06. But how many of those 100 sporst car guys ever take any those cars to their native habitat? Most never do. The percentage of sports car owners who actually seek out formal driving instruction is tiny compared to the total number of sports cars sold. Yet they complain about a car not having enough power? Does it really not have enough power or have they simply convinced themselves that the car is not up to the task? Seems to me its more in their heads than the reality of the car not being capable of going fast enough. Once a driver has really stretched his/her's car's legs in the right and left directions, as opposed to merely stomping on the gas at the red light, he will then have a new respect for his sports car because he knows that he is far from extracting the limit of the car...safely. That realization tends to curb the apetite for more power.

I don't believe anyone has said that HP isn't fun. I highly doubt you will find anyone to say otherwise. The question is why do some people feel
that a particular doesn't have enough power? While some think it's more than fine? Most sports cars are tested by professional drivers and if its REALLY lacking they add more power. Speaking of Montoya, I know someone who raced with him in a junior formula and when he was driving for Mercedes they gave Juan Pablo first crack at some AMG Merc and he told my pal "this car has WAY too much power for the public". I believe they listened and put less power in whatever car it was I can't remember the model.

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitute for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Great article. This author truly understands what a world class sports car is all about. Balance, precision, spirited performance, oneness with the road... these are the reasons I drive a Porsche.

In the last 5 years or so there has been an industry created, hyped need for ever increasing HP. It has sold a lot of cars and a lot of aftermarket performance products. Everyone has GOT to have it. It reminds me of the hype over X-Box last Christmas. Women wrestling each other to the ground for the last one in stock! Please!!! Will the world really stop revolving if you don't have the most advanced version, highest HP, lowest 0-60, fastest qtr mile etc. etc. Not likely.

From my perspective Porsche has not produced an "underpowered" sports car for a long time. They are just driven on occasion by drivers who lack a little imagination. I chose a 201HP Porsche over those "baddest kid on the block" rides like the 501HP Viper, 550HP Z06, 650HP Saleen Mustang because I found those cars tiring to drive and virtually unusable on public streets. My thirst for the horsepower holy grail has been quenched.

A great sports car is really a lot like a great woman. Learn to explore and appreciate all that they have to offer and to ignore their minor drawbacks and you are in for the ride of your life!

I agree with you MN. Austin Healey, Sunbeam, MG - all great sports cars with marginal power. I do wish Porsche would offer upgrades in the engine department though such as a 997s powertrain in a 987s. My preference is for the mid engine dynamics. It's clear the car can handle the added HP which leads one to agree with the notion that the only reason they don't offer the 997 drivetrain in the 987 is so that it won't bring down 997 sales where the mark-up must be higher. If the choice was between a Boxster with the 997 power and drivetrain and a Carrera at the same price I would go with the Boxster.

I was happy with the ~180 HP my 911 put out and it had a hard time keeping up with a 90 HP 356 at one of our PCA Auto-X events.

I think my 250 HP Boxster S flies! I don't feel the need to add any more power at all. The weak link right now is my driving skills and not the Boxsters HP or handling. I didn't buy the car to please the people that seem to have a problem with it's power output so I guess I'm golden.

BTW - I also own a 300ZX turbo ( for over 22 years) that only has 200 HP and have never felt the need to modify it even though you can get it to put out really good power for next to nothing. So I call "BS' to the people that call "BS" on us that think the Box has plenty of power :p lol .

So how does your love of the C6 come into play then? Or actually I guess that's more brucelee's fetish. :) You can troll around in fourth gear on that car and never need to shift.

I agree with the article about the "crap stereo", but I still think the base Cayman is a tragedy. Sure, it's a fun car, as is any 987 variant, but the fact that Porsche is protecting their anachronistic 911 is pretty uninspiring.

It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. A 5.0 stang blew past my 944 a few years ago. Within 1 mile we were in some agressive curves. I laughed as I accelerated my lowly 4 banger into three digits while Mr. Stang lit up his brake lights. Too late, he never saw anything but my ass after that.

hp is red meat for masses.

it gets worse and worse every decade. And if the public willing to pay well the car makers will do what it takes to make another buck.

which is what puts Porsche in an interesting position by building so few cars. They sell no matter how much HP they give the public. The 2002 GT2 was nearly $200K and they brought fewer than 200 of them stateside. Nearly the price of house yet the car didn't pass the 450 hp mark.

Look at the most famous 911 the 73 RS. Sold for nearly $10K more than 30 years ago, the race version (RSR) took overall *not just class* victory at LeMans.
What was under the hood of the RS? Nothing you wouldn't find in non-S Boxster today 2.7 that only made 207 hp.

Hi,

I have no particular love for the C6, though I do respect the job Chevy did on it. It's the 1st Corvette to actually Handle, and w/ decent Brakes - the car is finally Balanced. It is a lot of car for the $$...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I don't know about more HP...I can pretty successfully scare the bejesus out of people in the cockpit (including myself) with a 280 hp Boxster S driven at the limit (or at least my limits).

It takes a lot of HP and a lot of money (C06 excluded) to gain a half second off the 0-60 and a second off the 1/4 times of the 987S. It's pretty much a definitive example of diminishing returns.

As far as the C06 goes, in most cases if one can afford a new Boxster then one can afford a new Vette. It's not like Porsche buyers slap their foreheads and say "dang, I could have had a Vette". To state the obvious, it's a question of personal preference. Besides I don't own enough gold chains to drive a Vette and prefer crew-neck tee-shirts to wife-beaters.

nonono I only mentioned the 'vette in response to the criteria Jim gave for what constitutes a sports car. I'm not trying to say it's somehow a better car just because it has more horses or something.

I can scare people with the Boxster, but I could just as well scare them with a Miata. But if you want to scare someone on a track, you need something like an Evo or what not. A Cayman won't cut it.

Anyhow, I'm not out at the tracks much anymore so I guess it doesn't matter.

I can only scare someone in first gear... other than that .. :(

."Besides I don't own enough gold chains to drive a Vette and prefer crew-neck tee-shirts to wife-beaters."

Well, since you drive a "chick car" and a "Poor Man's Porsche," you can't really hurl insults can you?

Just kidding! See how stereotypes work, there is always a retort!

:)

Scared??? that's for chicks man.

I rode in a nervous GT3 going fast IN THE RAIN. Was I scared?
No way man..I have hair on my chest and drink my vodka straight!

If I trust the skill of the driver and I'm in a genuine sports car with good tires
and a stable platform, there is no reason to be scared at any speed.

p.s.
the funny thing about stereotypes is that they are generally true, that's how they became a stereotype to begin with.
Sure 911 Cabs aren't for homosexuals as TopGear's Jeremy Clarkson contends
but guess what Vincenzo my gay hairdresser drives? 911 Cab (tip).
And the last guy I saw driving a C6 in SoHo was wearing what?
moustache and gold chain playing some awwwwful cheesy 'freestyle' dance music from the 80's. And not far from Mr C6 was a Range Rover being driven by a guy who looked allot like MasterP.

Yawn...

OK Plap, you're the best car driver on the Internet..congratulations, you can pick up your award on the way out.

haha...no I'm the best passenger!!
that's the whole point, scaring your passenger doesn't prove anything about the car.

You can put this one next to your detailing trophies...

http://i17.tinypic.com/2e51pue.jpg

previous winners are exempt from that trophy. You should've seen
Mom Perfectlap behind the wheel of the Volvo 240 D. I haven't blinked
since I was eight.

Well, since you drive a "chick car" and a "Poor Man's Porsche," you can't really hurl insults can you?

Now see, that's the kind of thing I'd expect to hear from a Vette owner.

The chick car label is applied to a broad range of vehicles including a convertible Vette, I mean for crying out loud a convertible Vette is actually an accessory that's available for Barbie dolls !

And the "Poor Man's Porsche" insult totally misses the point of my previous post. If someone can afford a Porsche Boxster, than they can afford a Vette (or in the case of many Boxster owners, multiple Vettes). So does that make the Vette owner someone who can't even get on the bottom rung of the Porsche ladder? Nah, like I said, it's a matter of choice.

Well you didn't understand or didn't choose to read my entire post.

This "whole insult or stereotype the guy with the other car" is simply immature.

You can have your Vette, when I was a child I liked playing with plastic cars too...

Come on guys. Let's be the only mature car group out there that does not stereotype other cars and their owners.



If you really love cars, then you will appreciate all of them for what they are.

IBID

"This "whole insult or stereotype the guy with the other car" is simply immature."

:"If you really love cars, then you will appreciate all of them for what they are"

Indeed! Well said.

What does it say to have a gay male hairdresser? :rolleyes: (not that there's anything wrong with it.) I kid. I kid!!


Only a woman cuts my hair :D

Stereotypes are almost always incorrect and misinformed, my dad owns two vettes SD987 and not one gold chain. A 66 and a 99 to be exact. Never seen him wear a wife beater either.

I'm sure it's different in other places, but around here... Porsche and Corvette owners seem to be the most calm and docile drivers on the road and neither show any signs of being uncivilized in any way or form.



I am the exception. I disgrace Boxster owners :(

I don't know Bav, I think Porsche and Vette owners are like Siamese fighting fish. Docile on their own, but put them in the same bowl (or at the same stoplight) and all hell has been known to break loose.