HP is Overrated

[drburton]

I don't necessarily agree with the title of this post, but there is an interesting article in MotorTrend that talks about the complaints regarding the Cayman/Boxster HP. Ultimately, the point is the car is perfect the way it is, don't fret over the HP.

I am attaching a scanned version, might be hard to read b/c I had to reduce the size to get the file uploaded.



http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q176/drburton/IMG_0002.jpg

[djomlas]

there is no way i can read that man

[jinijazz]

Originally Posted by drburton

I am attaching a scanned version, might be hard to read b/c I had to reduce the size to get the file uploaded.

Please convert it to 16 color gray scale and upload again, the size will be reduce to at least 1/5.

[SD987]

Good read Drburton, thanks for posting (just save the picture and zoom it up a little in any windows pic reader/editor).

I agree with two of his opinions...the base 987/C7 is a blast to drive and the basic CD24 is a piece of crap.

[Boxter]

I was able to read it...thanks for posting. I agree, it made for a good read.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Very good, although eye-straining, read.


Makes me feel better about my car, assuming the Cayman and base 987 are interchangeable



I gave her a lot of work today.

[Chills]

Very good read. HP is a bit over rated. When running from stop light to stop light its fun, but I like turning better than going straight.

Yesterday I woke up early and headed out into the country. I put the top down and hit my favorite motorcycle roads for the first time in my Boxster. It was amazing. I could feel the wheels gripping and pulling, taking each turn as it was meant to be taken. Braking, down shifting, swinging into the turn, and accelerating through the apex I felt like the Boxster was having the time of her life.

I am so glad I bought a Boxster.

Oh, and I like in the article where the author says that every true sports car should have a crap stereo. hahahaha.

[Brucelee]

They are right. I run regular gas in my car so that its HP is a bit down, where I like it!

[Perfectlap]

my two cents
HP is addressed for two types of sports car buyers:

Sports car DRIVERS (those who partake in at least one DE, Driving instruction,
time trial, atucross, etc.)

and those who have never really turned the steering past 90 degrees, WOT in straight lines only. Let's call these sports car owners/enthusiasts.


Porsche doesn't put enough power in their cars when you look at the car market in general. This is glaringly obvious. The cars are fine as they are but its clear that they are manipulating horsepower and HP delivery, gearing etc. in an artificial manner to suit their interests and not really those of the sports car drivers and sports car owners.

1-Why does the CaymanS have an inexplicably tall 1st gear? So it doesn't beat the heavier 911's 0-60 time.

2-Why doesn't the Boxster still have HP well into the 300HP range when BMW and Merc are already offering this to their customers? We know why....

3-Why are all the non GT/Turbo 911's underpowered? So that the standard Carrera owners always have something to trade up to and Porsche can continue making boat loads of cash for cars that are pricey for what you get (true of all Pcars).

But given the underpowered issue at Porsche, most people complaining that this car doesn't have enough power or that car doesn't have enough power fall into a category: THose who demmand more power yet don't have the high performance driving skill to come withing 90% of a car's the lowest possible lap time at any given track. It's like the deer hunter that complains his assault weapon doesn't have enough firepower to take out an 80 pound deer. Your basically talking to a poser.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Regardless, I always welcome more HP



Porsche could sure use some hp upgrades. They have been using the same engines for a long time now. Might be time for new engines?



It's not like Porsche is stranger to having the fastest cars on the road. For a long time, Porsche DID hold claim to that title.



270hp for a base Boxster/Cayman, 325 hp for a Boxster S/Cayman S...and we're good :P

[aren040]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Regardless, I always welcome more HP



Porsche could sure use some hp upgrades. They have been using the same engines for a long time now. Might be time for new engines?



It's not like Porsche is stranger to having the fastest cars on the road. For a long time, Porsche DID hold claim to that title.



270hp for a base Boxster/Cayman, 325 hp for a Boxster S/Cayman S...and we're good :P

Sounds good to me, but then the Boxster might not be the cheap girlie car anymore.

But, before I take the HP bump, I would like to take care of that little pesky RMS issue.

[pecivil]

But given the underpowered issue at Porsche, most people complaining that this car doesn't have enough power or that car doesn't have enough power fall into a category: THose who demmand more power yet don't have the high performance driving skill to come withing 90% of a car's the lowest possible lap time at any given track. It's like the deer hunter that complains his assault weapon doesn't have enough firepower to take out an 80 pound deer. Your basically talking to a poser.

gotta call BS on that. More HP is fun, any way you slice it. I think the real poser is the guy who crows from the monuntaintop about his great lap times like he is Juan Pablo Montoya or something. That sounds like a "my dick is bigger than yours" comment to me. I have not taken my car to the track, but it sure is more fun to drive with the extra HP. You can really powerslide it. Torque oversteer I believe they call it. That is FUN.

Say it S-L-O-W-L-Y. More HP is fun. There is no argument that can be made against it. Does that mean a Vette is a better car than the Box? Of course not. But if you ask 100 sports car people is they want more or less HP, you know what they are going to say, don't you?

[Perfectlap]

of course everyone wants more power. It's like your boss asking you if you want more money? Who is going to say no to that?

But you can't have everyone at work making the boss's salary can you?
The boss gives you more money and then you get used to it and
what comes next? You want more money.
HP is the same, they give you 300HP coming from a 180 HP car you think
this is awesome. But then you get used to 300HP and want more. It doesn't end
until you are in a Z06. But how many of those 100 sporst car guys ever take any those cars to their native habitat? Most never do. The percentage of sports car owners who actually seek out formal driving instruction is tiny compared to the total number of sports cars sold. Yet they complain about a car not having enough power? Does it really not have enough power or have they simply convinced themselves that the car is not up to the task? Seems to me its more in their heads than the reality of the car not being capable of going fast enough. Once a driver has really stretched his/her's car's legs in the right and left directions, as opposed to merely stomping on the gas at the red light, he will then have a new respect for his sports car because he knows that he is far from extracting the limit of the car...safely. That realization tends to curb the apetite for more power.

I don't believe anyone has said that HP isn't fun. I highly doubt you will find anyone to say otherwise. The question is why do some people feel
that a particular doesn't have enough power? While some think it's more than fine? Most sports cars are tested by professional drivers and if its REALLY lacking they add more power. Speaking of Montoya, I know someone who raced with him in a junior formula and when he was driving for Mercedes they gave Juan Pablo first crack at some AMG Merc and he told my pal "this car has WAY too much power for the public". I believe they listened and put less power in whatever car it was I can't remember the model.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitute for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Topless]

Great article. This author truly understands what a world class sports car is all about. Balance, precision, spirited performance, oneness with the road... these are the reasons I drive a Porsche.

In the last 5 years or so there has been an industry created, hyped need for ever increasing HP. It has sold a lot of cars and a lot of aftermarket performance products. Everyone has GOT to have it. It reminds me of the hype over X-Box last Christmas. Women wrestling each other to the ground for the last one in stock! Please!!! Will the world really stop revolving if you don't have the most advanced version, highest HP, lowest 0-60, fastest qtr mile etc. etc. Not likely.

From my perspective Porsche has not produced an "underpowered" sports car for a long time. They are just driven on occasion by drivers who lack a little imagination. I chose a 201HP Porsche over those "baddest kid on the block" rides like the 501HP Viper, 550HP Z06, 650HP Saleen Mustang because I found those cars tiring to drive and virtually unusable on public streets. My thirst for the horsepower holy grail has been quenched.

A great sports car is really a lot like a great woman. Learn to explore and appreciate all that they have to offer and to ignore their minor drawbacks and you are in for the ride of your life!

[1JB]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitue for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I agree with you MN. Austin Healey, Sunbeam, MG - all great sports cars with marginal power. I do wish Porsche would offer upgrades in the engine department though such as a 997s powertrain in a 987s. My preference is for the mid engine dynamics. It's clear the car can handle the added HP which leads one to agree with the notion that the only reason they don't offer the 997 drivetrain in the 987 is so that it won't bring down 997 sales where the mark-up must be higher. If the choice was between a Boxster with the 997 power and drivetrain and a Carrera at the same price I would go with the Boxster.

[Rob-00BoxsterS]

I was happy with the ~180 HP my 911 put out and it had a hard time keeping up with a 90 HP 356 at one of our PCA Auto-X events.

I think my 250 HP Boxster S flies! I don't feel the need to add any more power at all. The weak link right now is my driving skills and not the Boxsters HP or handling. I didn't buy the car to please the people that seem to have a problem with it's power output so I guess I'm golden.

BTW - I also own a 300ZX turbo ( for over 22 years) that only has 200 HP and have never felt the need to modify it even though you can get it to put out really good power for next to nothing. So I call "BS' to the people that call "BS" on us that think the Box has plenty of power lol .

[eslai]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitute for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

So how does your love of the C6 come into play then? Or actually I guess that's more brucelee's fetish. You can troll around in fourth gear on that car and never need to shift.

I agree with the article about the "crap stereo", but I still think the base Cayman is a tragedy. Sure, it's a fun car, as is any 987 variant, but the fact that Porsche is protecting their anachronistic 911 is pretty uninspiring.

[Ghostrider 310]

It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. A 5.0 stang blew past my 944 a few years ago. Within 1 mile we were in some agressive curves. I laughed as I accelerated my lowly 4 banger into three digits while Mr. Stang lit up his brake lights. Too late, he never saw anything but my ass after that.

[Perfectlap]

hp is red meat for masses.

it gets worse and worse every decade. And if the public willing to pay well the car makers will do what it takes to make another buck.

which is what puts Porsche in an interesting position by building so few cars. They sell no matter how much HP they give the public. The 2002 GT2 was nearly $200K and they brought fewer than 200 of them stateside. Nearly the price of house yet the car didn't pass the 450 hp mark.

Look at the most famous 911 the 73 RS. Sold for nearly $10K more than 30 years ago, the race version (RSR) took overall *not just class* victory at LeMans.
What was under the hood of the RS? Nothing you wouldn't find in non-S Boxster today 2.7 that only made 207 hp.