HP is Overrated

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitute for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[1JB]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitue for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I agree with you MN. Austin Healey, Sunbeam, MG - all great sports cars with marginal power. I do wish Porsche would offer upgrades in the engine department though such as a 997s powertrain in a 987s. My preference is for the mid engine dynamics. It's clear the car can handle the added HP which leads one to agree with the notion that the only reason they don't offer the 997 drivetrain in the 987 is so that it won't bring down 997 sales where the mark-up must be higher. If the choice was between a Boxster with the 997 power and drivetrain and a Carrera at the same price I would go with the Boxster.

[Rob-00BoxsterS]

I was happy with the ~180 HP my 911 put out and it had a hard time keeping up with a 90 HP 356 at one of our PCA Auto-X events.

I think my 250 HP Boxster S flies! I don't feel the need to add any more power at all. The weak link right now is my driving skills and not the Boxsters HP or handling. I didn't buy the car to please the people that seem to have a problem with it's power output so I guess I'm golden.

BTW - I also own a 300ZX turbo ( for over 22 years) that only has 200 HP and have never felt the need to modify it even though you can get it to put out really good power for next to nothing. So I call "BS' to the people that call "BS" on us that think the Box has plenty of power lol .

[eslai]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

IMHO, I think there are too many Sports Car owners who don't really know what a Sports Car is.

Traditionally, most Sports Cars were Small, Light, Nimble, Balanced, with high-revving, small displacement Engines, excellent Steering and good Brakes. And, most were underpowered, especially when compared to the Bel Aires, Cutlasses, Galaxies, Furys and Muscle Cars of the day. Mom's Stationwagon would go Faster.

But, the Sports Car elicited a visceral, endorphin-generating Feeling which made it seem that you were going MUCH Faster than you actually were. Few of these cars would hit 125MPH. But, they proved how little Speed actually mattered to the Fun equation - it was the sensation of going fast or hanging out on the edge, as opposed to actually being there which made it Fun.

They also made Driver Skill an integral component to achieving Maximum performance from the car - they were Quick, not Fast.

Horsepower is a cheap substitute for Driver Skill and no substitute for that Feeling. It's the manifestation of the proverbial Dick Contest (which btw, no one ever really wins save for a moment - somebody's always coming along with a bigger one).

I think people have forgotten that it's this Feeling which is most important, not the time interval between 'A' and 'B'. No Chevy or Ford could give you that Feeling, no matter how Fast it was splitting the air...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

So how does your love of the C6 come into play then? Or actually I guess that's more brucelee's fetish. You can troll around in fourth gear on that car and never need to shift.

I agree with the article about the "crap stereo", but I still think the base Cayman is a tragedy. Sure, it's a fun car, as is any 987 variant, but the fact that Porsche is protecting their anachronistic 911 is pretty uninspiring.

[Ghostrider 310]

It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. A 5.0 stang blew past my 944 a few years ago. Within 1 mile we were in some agressive curves. I laughed as I accelerated my lowly 4 banger into three digits while Mr. Stang lit up his brake lights. Too late, he never saw anything but my ass after that.

[Perfectlap]

hp is red meat for masses.

it gets worse and worse every decade. And if the public willing to pay well the car makers will do what it takes to make another buck.

which is what puts Porsche in an interesting position by building so few cars. They sell no matter how much HP they give the public. The 2002 GT2 was nearly $200K and they brought fewer than 200 of them stateside. Nearly the price of house yet the car didn't pass the 450 hp mark.

Look at the most famous 911 the 73 RS. Sold for nearly $10K more than 30 years ago, the race version (RSR) took overall *not just class* victory at LeMans.
What was under the hood of the RS? Nothing you wouldn't find in non-S Boxster today 2.7 that only made 207 hp.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by eslai

So how does your love of the C6 come into play then? Or actually I guess that's more brucelee's fetish. You can troll around in fourth gear on that car and never need to shift.

I agree with the article about the "crap stereo", but I still think the base Cayman is a tragedy. Sure, it's a fun car, as is any 987 variant, but the fact that Porsche is protecting their anachronistic 911 is pretty uninspiring.

Hi,

I have no particular love for the C6, though I do respect the job Chevy did on it. It's the 1st Corvette to actually Handle, and w/ decent Brakes - the car is finally Balanced. It is a lot of car for the $$...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[SD987]

I don't know about more HP...I can pretty successfully scare the bejesus out of people in the cockpit (including myself) with a 280 hp Boxster S driven at the limit (or at least my limits).

It takes a lot of HP and a lot of money (C06 excluded) to gain a half second off the 0-60 and a second off the 1/4 times of the 987S. It's pretty much a definitive example of diminishing returns.

As far as the C06 goes, in most cases if one can afford a new Boxster then one can afford a new Vette. It's not like Porsche buyers slap their foreheads and say "dang, I could have had a Vette". To state the obvious, it's a question of personal preference. Besides I don't own enough gold chains to drive a Vette and prefer crew-neck tee-shirts to wife-beaters.

[eslai]

nonono I only mentioned the 'vette in response to the criteria Jim gave for what constitutes a sports car. I'm not trying to say it's somehow a better car just because it has more horses or something.

I can scare people with the Boxster, but I could just as well scare them with a Miata. But if you want to scare someone on a track, you need something like an Evo or what not. A Cayman won't cut it.

Anyhow, I'm not out at the tracks much anymore so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Bavarian Motorist]

I can only scare someone in first gear... other than that ..

[Brucelee]

."Besides I don't own enough gold chains to drive a Vette and prefer crew-neck tee-shirts to wife-beaters."

Well, since you drive a "chick car" and a "Poor Man's Porsche," you can't really hurl insults can you?

Just kidding! See how stereotypes work, there is always a retort!

[Perfectlap]

Scared??? that's for chicks man.

I rode in a nervous GT3 going fast IN THE RAIN. Was I scared?
No way man..I have hair on my chest and drink my vodka straight!

If I trust the skill of the driver and I'm in a genuine sports car with good tires
and a stable platform, there is no reason to be scared at any speed.

p.s.
the funny thing about stereotypes is that they are generally true, that's how they became a stereotype to begin with.
Sure 911 Cabs aren't for homosexuals as TopGear's Jeremy Clarkson contends
but guess what Vincenzo my gay hairdresser drives? 911 Cab (tip).
And the last guy I saw driving a C6 in SoHo was wearing what?
moustache and gold chain playing some awwwwful cheesy 'freestyle' dance music from the 80's. And not far from Mr C6 was a Range Rover being driven by a guy who looked allot like MasterP.