race harness

[djomlas]

are there any restrictions/rules when it comes to this in autocross events?
and also, are there anywhere any kind of instructions or pictures what these look like in a boxster?
either a 4 or 5 point ones.

[John V]

First, the stock seats are not designed to work with harnesses.

Secondly, they are illegal for SCCA autocross when used in convertibles. You can imagine why. Sorry.

[Perfectlap]

well I don't about your area but here we have half a dozen different clubs some regional some national like PCA and SCCA. They all have differing rules and enforce the rules differently.
I did see someone fit 6 point belts to a stock 996 seat once, I think pics were on Renntech at one point.
Then there's the CG Lock which I've used, just a fastener that keeps the stock seat belt from coming loose at the lap. Very effective for a few bucks.

If you like Autocross and are going to venture onto the track investing in a GT3 seat or Recaro Pole Position, which bolts right into the existing floorboard holes-no need for an extra set of rails,
is a good investement.

[John V]

I would really like to see pictures of a 5-point belt used with a Boxster / 996 seat. Did they cut a hole in the seat cushion for the antisub belt?

I wouldn't trust any club that allowed a convertible (with no rollbar) to run with a harness. Scary thought. If you're investing in a fixed-back seat and harness (ostensibly in the interest of safety) then the additional cost of a rollbar extention seems a trivial, but necessary, addition.

[Perfectlap]

that was my mistake, it was a four point harness. and it was a Boxster not a 996.
also, Don't forget that if you are under the broom stick point the windshield header and roll hoops provide more than adequate roll over protection with the mere use of a standard stock seat belt which isn't going to hold you in place nearly as well as a race harness.

[djomlas]

i found one guy that did it

there are more pics on his site as well.

and also, about the broomstick rule, does that also apply if you show up there w a hardtop?

[ChrisZang]

Hi,

I was going down that lane myself some time ago and did some research
there are very good instructions at http://boxsters.addr.com/hacks/harness.htm
I BELIEVE (it's not confirmed) that the Brey-Krause parts which you will need are R-9001 and R-9003

HOWEVER (and that's where I stopped) when I did driver education in preparation for DE/TT events I was told that running 5 or 6 point harnesses with a stock Boxster seat is actually quite dangerous. The stock seat is kind of shaped like an "A" which means that the shoulder harnesses will have the tendency to slip off your shoulders. And I was told that they will do that at the worst moments This means that you will be safer with your stock 3-point harness.

I live in CA and if I want to do TT in my PCA region I need to buy racing seats (the one's with the holes in the back for the shoulder harnesses) to install 5/6 points

Better check that with your chapter before you spend a lot of money on something they won't allow you to use.

Let me know how it goes
Christopher

[Perfectlap]

no the broomstick test is only on the track and in a convertible. I don't think I have ever heard of a car rolling over on an autocross. Most of the accidents involve someone not braking and ending up going into the crowd, fence, etc.
One year one of my clubs who have very open courses and not these mickey mouse courses where you aren't ever going straight for more than 30 feet, had it's President wreck his car crashing into a light pole in the Stadium lot.
however difficult, It's definitely possible to flip a Boxster at a low speed event like an autocross if the surface has undulations, and ruts/potholes etc.

[John V]

Originally Posted by ChrisZang

HOWEVER (and that's where I stopped) when I did driver education in preparation for DE/TT events I was told that running 5 or 6 point harnesses with a stock Boxster seat is actually quite dangerous. The stock seat is kind of shaped like an "A" which means that the shoulder harnesses will have the tendency to slip off your shoulders. And I was told that they will do that at the worst moments This means that you will be safer with your stock 3-point harness.

Christopher you are right on the money. The harnesses in that pic above show exactly what I was referring to. Very dangerous.

Furthermore, factory hardtops don't provide any additional rollover protection beyond the factory rollbars. A hardtop is not an acceptable substitute for a roll-bar extention at track events.

[djomlas]

i understand that part, but if you show up there in a boxster with a hardtop, will you have to take it off and have a broomstick test done?

[Perfectlap]

no you can run your car on just about any track with the hardtop. Presumably if you can fit in the car with your helmet on you are ok. Not everyone can do this though...like my friend who is 6'3 and simply can't fit in the car with a helmet on unless the top is removed. He would need a roll bar extension to run in my car on any track.

I don't think I have ever seen anyone administer a broom stick test at an autocross. THey probably should, I'm sure at least one big guy in an S2000 or Miata, Z4 etc has had the top of his helmet crest above the windshield header.

[John V]

I don't know about the Glen, but at Summit Point and VIR (my "local" tracks) a Boxster with a hardtop (and no additional rollover protection) would not be legal.

No such requirement for autocross UNLESS you have harnesses.

[Perfectlap]

so are open top Boxsters without a roll bar extension not legal at SP and VIR?

[racer_d]

Technically, the visiable roll hoops you see on a 986/987 ARE part of a ROLLBAR system built into the car. It's a 4 point rollbar unit. There are schematics of the Boxster out there (I have seen them in print) that make it quite clear how structurally important and beneficial those bars are.

1) Check you local club/region before installing harnesses. PCA National has rolled out some new regulations regarding Harness installs and the seats used in conjunction with harnesses.

The main reason for PCA's ruling is because the STOCK SEATS, with built in headrests, do NOT allow for proper belt placement on the driver. For the shoulders, a "skinny" driver could squeeze between the belts in a collision. Also, the sub belt needs to be routed up under your crotch, not around the seat. That said, I beleive it is Schroth, who offer "improved" 4pt belts and sub belts that go around your seat, but it appears PCA's blanket ruling does not include these newer systems.

2) Most clubs, treat "safety" enhancements as "free".. ie no penalty for it, but again, check with the rulebook for the clubs you want to run with.

3) Personally, I don't encourage the use of 4pt belts or the use of harnesses with Stock seats because they don't secure a person as well as a "correct" system would.

4) Most AX's don't have a broomstick test (at least the ones I've attended on the East coast), simply do to the lower speeds and less likelyhood of rolling your car.

5) Some tracks (VIR for example) may require you to use a B-K extension. I believe VIR requires one whether or not you pass the boomstick test without it.

6) Some tracks allow for the use of a hardtop in lieu of the B-K bar OR the broomstick test.

7) In the end, it comes down to how rigorous rules are enforced, for where you want to run.

[John V]

Originally Posted by racer_d

5) Some tracks (VIR for example) may require you to use a B-K extension. I believe VIR requires one whether or not you pass the boomstick test without it.

Correct. Summit is the same way.

[EPIQTodd]

4-point belts are useless - you have a high liklihood of submarining under them in an accident. 5 points are nearly out as well - most clubs are making 6-points the only legal way to go.