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Old 04-22-2004, 06:29 PM   #1
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Labor time/costs

I'm going to probabbly get an aftermarket exhaust and intake this summer since I finally have a job I'm guessing my porsche dealer in Indy charges around 100 bucks an hour for labor and I have a quick question.......How long does it take a dealer mechanic to install an exhaust and intake on a boxster s? I'd like to have a ballpark labor figure in mind before I give them a call. I may just do the intake on my own, but I don't think I could takle the exhaust myself. I was seeing corvette exhaust vendors pulling old mufflers off and throwing new ones on at mid-america and it was only taking them around 45min for each car.
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Old 04-23-2004, 03:29 PM   #2
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Despite the claims, be advised you are adding the muffler more for sound than for power. A well balanced setup of intake+headers+ECU will provide some power. An aftermarket muffler on the Boxster will frequently REDUCE power in some area, add power in others and add resonance.
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Old 04-24-2004, 04:29 PM   #3
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Yeah I wish I could afford headers and a ECU retune right now but that's not an option yet. I'm just a poor 23yr old kid that just got a low paying job out of college My plan is to just add the intake and exhaust soon and then do the headers and ECU retune after some more paychecks come in. I would like to know how much a ecu retune would run me. Does anyone have a ballpark on how much a retune costs(and I mean a good retune on a dyno).

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Old 04-24-2004, 07:16 PM   #4
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I have an ECU retune. I spent a lot for mine though. I had a tuner remap all of the breaking points in multiple mappings for my ECU so mine was around 2 k US dollars. 1200 for the tuner to do his job and about 800 in Dyno time since we spent almost 8 hours there. I have been told that most of the desk tuners out there will charge between 700-1200 to redo the ECU. Make sure if you decide to use a desk tuner he is aware of the specific modifications you have already done to your vehicle at the time of having your ECU tuned.
And to try and answer your exhaust question....to just have the muffler swapped out with another shouldnt take more and an hour but the mechanic might charge 2 or more hours of labor unless you get someone who is straight with you.
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Old 04-24-2004, 07:39 PM   #5
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If you are a 23yr old kid trying to save money - a muffler is not a good performance enhancing choice. The order of choice in PERFORMANCE would be 1-intake, 2-headers, 3-ecu.
If you are looking for SOUND enhancement, two low budget options are:
1-remove the 'snorkel', 2-remove some of the internal baffling from the muffler. Both of these are sweat only modifications, and don't cost anything unless you break something.

The snorkel removal, is taking off the tube between the air filter box and the grill on the drivers side. It enhances the sound by improving the engine snarl to your left ear. Pictures at http://www.realtime.net/~rentner/Porsche/SideVents/SideVents.html


The Boxster Racing Board is a good resource for advice on performance modifications http://www.iq.dynip.com/~racing/index.cgi/index.cgi?


price estimates: intake$400, headers $1000+, cat back exhaust $1000+, ECU $1000+ Together these give 30-40HP. Several mufflers ads claim 30HP, none of these claims are dyno proven and some exhausts are dyno proven to lose horsepower.

With a base Boxster, you can get meaningful horsepower improvement with a TPC supercharger or a 3.4L engine swap. With an S, the only meaningful improvement is a 3.4L engine swap.

If I were thinking of spending $400-$500 dollars on adding speed to my car, I would buy a helmet and go to the track with PCA. After 4 track days, including today at Lime Rock, my stock Boxster S is still way faster than I am as a driver.

P.S. If your plan is to add an intake, be very careful working with oiled filters. Oil in your intake can easily destroy the $150+MAF.
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Old 04-25-2004, 03:51 PM   #6
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Thankyou very much Ad Sach for the detailed info. I wasn't aware it was such a pain to remove the engine grills. Does desnorkling have any downsides? Warranty problems or more dust particles getting in perhaps? Do alot of boxster owners desnork? I think my plan so far is to get a BMC-1 flat filter that goes into the oem airbox and replaces the oem filter. It's supposed to be a real nice oem replacement filter, or so I hear on the boxster racing board. Cost is approx $80 I believe. I have heard about fouled mafs so I am going to real careful about loading up on to much oil if oiling is necessary. I know that headers will give a performance increase and a muffler probabbly wont, but thats ok with me. I figured that mufflers were much easier to install. Does the engine need to be pulled in order to install the headers? If not maybe I will go with the headers first and then the exhaust. I want a louder exhaust sound even if the power goes nowhere so the exhaust is definately in the cards. I'm still leaning torwards fabspeed for the exhaust, headers and ecu retune. They have an in-house dyno setup to optimize the power. Here is the website incase some of you guys haven't seen it yet www.fabspeed.com/ Miller, thanks for the info, I was afraid that it was going to be expensive, but I know the retune is essential in order to make any real gains. I'm sure the warranty is compromised when these things are done to so I'm not thrilled about that either.
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Old 04-25-2004, 07:53 PM   #7
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>>I wasn't aware it was such a pain to remove the engine grills.<<
The biggest pain for me was after 45 minutes to get the grill off(15 minutes 2nd time) - I still wasn't able to pull the 'snork' off. As far as I know, I am the only one who has been totally unsuccessful at this. And no, I am NOT mechanically inept. The trick to getting the grill off is to discover the right place and direction to pull.

>> Does desnorkling have any downsides? Warranty problems or more dust particles getting in perhaps? <<
Warrantee - I suppose if you sucked a cigarette butt into the air intake they might not replace your air filter for free. Any particles that get past the snork should be trapped in the filter. My biggest fear was that water could be sucked into the filter without the little cup at the end of the intake trumpet. This must not be a real concern since on the 04 Porsche removed the little cup. This added a little sound to the intake, so apparently even this part was a sound baffle.

>>Do alot of boxster owners desnork?<<
This was very popular on PPBB about 1-2 years ago. At the time noone reported a problem except some folks thought it made the car too loud under full throttle. I haven't been back to PPBB for a year(way too much time keeping up with the messages), so I don't know the current popularity.

Since it is a no cost modification that enhances sound, it seems like you might try it and see if you like it.


>>I think my plan so far is to get a BMC-1 flat filter that goes into the oem airbox and replaces the oem filter. It's supposed to be a real nice oem replacement filter, or so I hear on the boxster racing board. << I trust the Boxster Racing Board's experience.

If you are going to replace the muffler, the GHL is IMO the best looking, the lightest weight, and has a sound that those who like more noise enjoy.

http://www.rernetworking.com/boxter.jpg
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Old 04-25-2004, 09:09 PM   #8
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Thanks again ad sach. This info is very helpful as I am not much of a mechanic
So, supposedly the darn snorkel just pulls off but you had some trouble and it wouldn't budge huh? I hope I can yank the snork off my S. I will probabbly be very tenative and not pull hard enough out of fear of messing something up. How hard are we talking here force wise when pulling?

After thinking it over I decided the BMC filter was the best way to go over the EVO or other cones because it costs significantly less, the install is much easier, it gives about the same power increase as the evo and the warranty will definately stay intact. Next up is exhaust. I'm thinking definately before June.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:15 AM   #9
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Hey Adam,
Actually if you have your chip redone properly the dealer has no way of knowing your chip has been modified. When your chip is retuned they remove the chip that holds your fuel maps from the ECU. They make the modifications to the file and use an EPROM to flash the new program to your chip. Then it is resodered onto the ECU mainboard. But yes it is a fairly expensive process if done properly.
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Old 04-26-2004, 06:39 AM   #10
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Why not remove both snorkels? is there a problem with that for some reason
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Old 04-26-2004, 03:43 PM   #11
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If you want more air intake sound then just remove the black foam covering on the air filter.

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Old 04-26-2004, 06:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Automon
Why not remove both snorkels? is there a problem with that for some reason
Automon

Umm, there is only one air-filter and intake so I wouldn't think there would be two snorkles. The right side grill is just there to release engine heat and match the left side grill(no air suction there). There is no double intake on the boxster like the grills would have you think.
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Old 04-26-2004, 06:12 PM   #13
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tool Pants
[B]If you want more air intake sound then just remove the black foam covering on the air filter.

Won't be necessary, I am getting the BMC F1 by the end of this week. Supposedly it's the best aftermarket replacement filter on the market. I will also desnork when I pull the engine cover off to do the install. Should sound good I hope!!
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:23 PM   #14
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I have a questions concerning removing the snorkels.


Why is it not enough to simply mask over the end of the snorkel? I guess I am just wondering if there is an easier way to accomplish the same thing without literally ripping your car apart. This just kind of sounds like a thing were one guy did it, and other people copied him and nobody stopped to think if there was a better way.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:24 PM   #15
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Desnork and air filter are totally seperate jobs.

The snork and grill are on the outside.

The airbox with filter is in the engine compartment.


How much force to desnork? I was pulling and twisting probably 120-150 lbs. I have worked less hard on transmission swaps.
I am positive my experience is not representative, as noone would do it if it was that hard!
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:52 PM   #16
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Yeah, over on BRB they sounded like it was pretty easy to twist off and pull. I should have been more clear earlier, I will remove the engine cover then remove the engine grill in order to help "ease" the snorkel off from both sides. I saw that Skyler posted some grill removel instructions but I can't find them now. Does anyone have removel instructions/pics available of the removal proccess??? Tool pants, you out there?
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