Swapping engines

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

No, but be sure to buy some high compression floor mats and refill your blinker fluid......

This is the kind of next-level technical support that makes this forum what it is!

[LoneWolfGal]

Got the compression tool this afternoon. Never one to work on something out in the shop when I can work on it inside in front of the TV and near snacks, I brought the cams in for the procedure. I ran into a problem right off the bat: My deep socket set only goes down to 9mm. I needed an 8mm, so I pressed an 8mm box-end wrench into service. It worked well until pressure caused the nylon washer under the nut to bulge, to the point where I can't get the wrench on it. If I had an 8mm deep socket I could probably bear down on it enough to seat the socket on the nut. As to why the washer accompanying the nut is made of nylon instead of brass or steel, that's a good question. Only two solutions to the problem, as I see it: (1) scare up an 8mm deep socket somewhere, or (2) use a metal washer under the nut. I lean toward (2), unless there's a compelling reason why I shouldn't. I invite your input.

Also, it's amazing how ingrained right-hand thread operation is. A half-dozen times I caught myself turning it clockwise with the intention of tightening it and groaning when I noticed the nut was traveling up the rod instead of down. When I consciously turned the nut counterclockwise to tighten it, it felt... wrong. And weird. I suppose I'd get over it after a year or two, three years at most, of working with left-hand threads.

[JFP in PA]

For future reference, it is always a good idea to lubricate the threads on devices like this to reduce galling and stripping of the threads. When this tool is cranked down, there is a considerable load on the threaded areas as the tool is by design necessity smaller than it should be for the load on it. Any decent lube will do; penetrating oil, engine oil, whatever you have. I personally favor ARP's Ultra Torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant, which we use extensively, but you could even get away using anti seize compound to both protect the treads and make torquing easier and more accurate.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

For future reference, it is always a good idea to lubricate the threads on devices like this to reduce galling and stripping of the threads.

I did use a dab of engine oil that was clinging to the outside of the VarioCam to lubricate the threads, but I wish I'd had some of that ARP Ultra-Torque product. I'll pick some up. I used to have some anti-seize compound but it got lost in the shuffle.

[JFP in PA]

We never reuse either pressure plate or flywheel bolts, they are not that expensive and typically under high loads in use, plus the flywheel bolts are torque to yeild (torque spec + additonal angle) which automaitcally precludes reuse.


Amazon list the threaded rod with one day delivery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078H6J4D3/?coliid=ISRITT0IKCK3V&colid=2HC5QQFJX9KXZ&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

uxcell M5 Fully Threaded Rod, 304 Stainless Steel, 250mm Length, 0.8mm Thread Pitch, Left Hand Threads

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

We never reuse either pressure plate or flywheel bolts, they are not that expensive and typically under high loads in use, plus the flywheel bolts are torque to yeild (torque spec + additonal angle) which automaitcally precludes reuse.


Amazon list the threaded rod with one day delivery: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078H6J4D3/?coliid=ISRITT0IKCK3V&colid=2HC5QQFJX9KXZ&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

uxcell M5 Fully Threaded Rod, 304 Stainless Steel, 250mm Length, 0.8mm Thread Pitch, Left Hand Threads

Appreciate the info. I ordered new bolts for the pressure plate and flywheel. I went with Accu instead of Amazon for the rod and nut, chiefly because Accu's hex nuts are stainless steel, whereas Amazon's are carbon steel.

[LoneWolfGal]

JFP, I'll take a wild stab — you install only Genuine Porsche clutch plates and throwout bearings? Myself, I'll have to go with aftermarket, due to budget constraints. Are there any aftermarket clutch parts you recommend? I'm guessing in your shop you go the whole nine yards — new flywheel and pressure plate. Wish I could, but again, I don't want to have to move to the poorhouse.

[JFP in PA]

We have had excellent results with the factory parts and generally only use them unless the customer request something special, only then if we think their choice is not going to lead to problems.

We replace the disc, pressure plate, all bolts, throw out bearing, and pilot bearing in a standard replacement. The flywheel only gets replaced if it is either severely heat checked or fails the factory "twist test" for the dual mass assembly.

[cooler]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

We have had excellent results with the factory parts and generally only use them unless the customer request something special, only then if we think their choice is not going to lead to problems.

We replace the disc, pressure plate, all bolts, throw out bearing, and pilot bearing in a standard replacement. The flywheel only gets replaced if it is either severely heat checked or fails the factory "twist test" for the dual mass assembly.

Hello, I am really hoping someone could measure the distance from the engine/bellhousing flange to the flywheel friction surface on the M96 (I believe this measurement is the same on all variants) Should be about 50mm. be accurate to the mm.

[LoneWolfGal]

I suspect a number of folks who hang out here have bought aftermarket clutch parts. Those who have, do you have any recommendations?

[elgyqc]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

I suspect a number of folks who hang out here have bought aftermarket clutch parts. Those who have, do you have any recommendations?

I have used the EPS disk on two cars, good price, no complaints.
https://www.europeanpartssolution.com/power-friction-clutch-disc
... with the new bolts, used flywheel and pressure plate.

[LoneWolfGal]

I couldn't stop fiddling with the cams while waiting for the replacement compression tool to arrive, and I was struck by a Grant Hargraveish idea. First, I used a carpenter's clamp positioned on the new pads to fully compress the VarioCam. (And a C-clamp would have worked just as well, but I didn't have one large enough on hand.) Next, I threaded a heavy-duty pull tie through the holes for the compression tool and pulled it tight to keep the device compressed. Then I removed the clamp. The chain fit over the pads with hardly any trouble. Last, I snipped the pull tie and removed it.

Only one hitch, and I'm not sure it's a problem. I carefully kept the lighter-color chain links mated to the divots in the sprockets so that the cams would be in time with each other. I wanted to keep them both at 12 o'clock (while they were on the table). However, during the manipulation necessary to get the chain in place over the pads the cams rotated a teeny bit, to 1 o'clock, enough so the intake cam's link and divot are slightly apart, even though they're still lined up (see photo 2). I should have checked that before I snipped the pull-tie, because the cams can't be rotated without compressing the pads again. My question is, is it necessary to correct the problem so that both cams' links and divots are at 12 o'clock before they're installed in the head? Or can the cams be rotated slightly by hand after they're installed, with the cam tool inserted into the ends of the cams, the cam retainer loosely bolted in place, and before the double chain's sprocket is bolted to the exhaust cam?





The clamp/pull-tie method certainly works, but I'm going to wait until I have the compression tool to do bank 2's cams, so I can get my money's worth out of it.

[JFP in PA]

Like I said, yours is a personal choice. Interestingly, the factory recommends lubrication for Subaru head bolts..............

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Like I said, yours is a personal choice. Interestingly, the factory recommends lubrication for Subaru head bolts..............

I'd be interested in seeing where they recommend using assembly Lube. Oil maybe, but I've never seen them recommend assembly lube.

And Subaru doesn't use Loctite on their head bolts. Oil would defeat the purpose loctite, which was my point from the beginning.

Also from Loctite's website:
"Grease, dirt, or oil in the assembly can slow curing, leading to a weak bond."

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

I'd be interested in seeing where they recommend using assembly Lube. Oil maybe, but I've never seen them recommend assembly lube.

And Subaru doesn't use Loctite on their head bolts. Oil would defeat the purpose loctite, which was my point from the beginning.

Also from Loctite's website:
"Grease, dirt, or oil in the assembly can slow curing, leading to a weak bond."

I saw it on ALLDATA.

I have never used Loctite on head bolts or studs, and never used or suggested anyone use both lubricant and Loctite on ANY fasteners; but have used thread sealant (alone) when they penetrate the water jacket.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I saw it on ALLDATA.

I have never used Loctite on head bolts or studs, and never used or suggested anyone use both lubricant and Loctite on ANY fasteners; but have used thread sealant (alone) when they penetrate the water jacket.

ALLDATA said use assembly Lube on Subaru head bolts? I don't think so. Perhaps you read it wrong. Oil, yes. Assembly Lube? I highly doubt it. If so, then I'd suggest you call them and tell them to update their manuals, because Subaru says to use engine oil.

This whole discussion started when you said I was wrong for telling LoneWolfGal not to use the lube you recommend on flywheel and pressure plate bolts because they need Loctite, and now you're saying you never suggested using both? We'll let the posts speak for themselves.

We both agreed that it's good to use it on the head of the bolt, but the discussion stemmed around the threads and them binding up, which you literally said you put a dab on the threads. Again, go back and read the posts. That is, until now, after I remided you that Loctite said not to use any lubricants.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

ALLDATA said use assembly Lube on Subaru head bolts? I don't think so. Perhaps you read it wrong. Oil, yes. Assembly Lube? I highly doubt it. If so, then I'd suggest you call them and tell them to update their manuals, because Subaru says to use engine oil.

This whole discussion started when you said I was wrong for telling LoneWolfGal not to use the lube you recommend on flywheel and pressure plate bolts because they need Loctite, and now you're saying you never suggested using both? We'll let the posts speak for themselves.

We both agreed that it's good to use it on the head of the bolt, but the discussion stemmed around the threads and them binding up, which you literally said you put a dab on the threads. Again, go back and read the posts. That is, until now, after I remided you that Loctite said not to use any lubricants.

ALLDATA says "suitable lubricating oil", which is EXACTLY what ARP assembly lube is.

From my post, which you here totally misrepresent, "You definitely want a dot of blue Loctite on the threads of both the pressure plate and flywheel bolts, but a coating of this product underneath the heads of the flywheel bolts makes cranking them to their final +90 degrees after torquing one heck of a lot easier....." Nowhere in this post do I even remotely suggest using mixing or using both on the same surfaces.

"Nam ipsa loquitur" to use a long standing legal maxim...............

[piper6909]

I just checked the Uhaul site and you can rent a pickup or a 10' box truck for $19.95/hour (plus $1.39/mile). Too bad you don't have anything left in the other house, otherwise the 10' truck would have been perfect. If you have nothing else to haul, the pickup may be your best bet, given it'll be easier to handle and probably gets better mileage. The car carrier alone costs 54.95, for a total of $74.90 before tagging on miles.

Maybe call a towing company and see what they would charge for a flatbed. My guess it would be not much more. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle, and they're liable if anything happens. National average is from $75 to $125

As a die-hard DIYer, I evaluate the options and sometimes conclude that even a die-hard DIYer has to call in reinforcements occasionally.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

I just checked the Uhaul site and you can rent a pickup or a 10' box truck for $19.95/hour (plus $1.39/mile). Too bad you don't have anything left in the other house, otherwise the 10' truck would have been perfect. If you have nothing else to haul, the pickup may be your best bet, given it'll be easier to handle and probably gets better mileage. The car carrier alone costs 54.95, for a total of $74.90 before tagging on miles.

Maybe call a towing company and see what they would charge for a flatbed. My guess it would be not much more. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle, and they're liable if anything happens. National average is from $75 to $125

As a die-hard DIYer, I evaluate the options and sometimes conclude that even a die-hard DIYer has to call in reinforcements occasionally.

Al, the problem is, I'm moving from Corbett, Oregon (on the Columbia River Gorge, east of Portland) to Eugene, about 140 miles south. so the mileage on the rental truck would probably add up to quite a sum. Also, I would face logistical problems picking up the truck and returning it, since U-Haul is 15 miles away, in Gresham, and it seems all my friends in the area are out of town this week. Otherwise, one of them could give me a lift..

I'm leaning toward renting U-Haul's auto transport, even though the combined weight of car and trailer approaches 5000 lbs. As I said, I once towed a 5000 lb. travel trailer for a friend with my 4WD Isuzu Rodeo without a problem, but it was only 30 miles; 140 miles could be a strain. Or not. The Isuzu is pretty beefy, and it would be a straight shot down I-5 on mostly flat pavement. As an alternative, I think I'll call some transport companies and find out how much they would charge to flatbed the car down there.

I had naively assumed the tow dolly was the perfect solution for towing the car. But nooo! That would be too simple and easy.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

Al, the problem is, I'm moving from Corbett, Oregon (on the Columbia River Gorge, east of Portland) to Eugene, about 140 miles south. so the mileage on the rental truck would probably add up to quite a sum. Also, I would face logistical problems picking up the truck and returning it, since U-Haul is 15 miles away, in Gresham, and it seems all my friends in the area are out of town this week. Otherwise, one of them could give me a lift..

I'm leaning toward renting U-Haul's auto transport, even though the combined weight of car and trailer approaches 5000 lbs. As I said, I once towed a 5000 lb. travel trailer for a friend with my 4WD Isuzu Rodeo without a problem, but it was only 30 miles; 140 miles could be a strain. Or not. The Isuzu is pretty beefy, and it would be a straight shot down I-5 on mostly flat pavement. As an alternative, I think I'll call some transport companies and find out how much they would charge to flatbed the car down there.

I had naively assumed the tow dolly was the perfect solution for towing the car. But nooo! That would be too simple and easy.

I didn't realize you were driving that far. The mileage will rack the rental price up quite a bit. Even more with a towing company. If you're not dealing with many hills, you should be fine with the Rodeo.

Another thought is to get an estimate from Uship. Can the car drive onto a trailer? Often times, if they can combine trips you can get a bit of a break.