Adolf Hitler's Porsche for sale - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

12-02-2006, 08:31 PM

MNBoxster · 12-02-2006, 11:48 PM

Hi,

Well, except that it's an AUDI (Auto Union). F. Porsche did do some design work but that's a far cry from calling it a Porsche...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

z12358 · 12-03-2006, 04:23 AM

The article said it was "created by Ferdinand Porsche". Also:
"The car, one of the fastest of its time, has 485 horse-power and a maximum speed of 186mph..."

One needn't worry about depreciation on this one. Comes out 10/10 for a classic both on exclusivity and story.

Ronzi · 12-03-2006, 09:10 AM

I suppose if laying down the basic specifications of a rear engine V16 Grand Prix car, and then selling that design to Auto Union in 1933 can be called "some design work", then Ferdinand Porsche did "some" of the work on it.

I suppose it could be argued that Porsche himself probably didn't put so much as one line of the car on an engineering drawing. That was handled by Karl Rabe and the engineering staff at Porsche's design company.
The same argument is often made about American designer Harry Miller and his racing engines. Did Miller design them, or was it really Leo Goossen, his engineer and draftsman? Or, ... maybe even Fred Offenhauser, his chief machinist?

In any event, by the time the car in question was built, doubtless one of the last ones built for racing in the 1937 season, Porsche was well out of the development process at Auto Union.

Ronzi · 12-03-2006, 09:46 AM

Sorry, my mistake for not reading the article carefully enough. It does say a "1939" car.

According to Richard von Frankenberg's book "Porsche - the Man and His Cars", the '38 and '39 Auto Union racing cars were the work of German engineering professor Eberan von Eberhorst, albeit following the basic overall design originally laid down by Porsche some years before.

Rail26 · 12-03-2006, 11:12 AM

No way in hell I would even come close to that car. I can't keep from wrecking my car...I can't imagine owning Hitlers ride. Bad Karma (no pun intended). Like taking a lava rock home from Hawaii...just ask one of the Brady kids.

djomlas · 12-03-2006, 11:18 AM

even though hitler was responsible to killing large part of my family in a war, id still take that ride.

CJ_Boxster · 12-03-2006, 12:11 PM

damn 485hp in that time must have felt like a rocket with no traction!

Bavarian Motorist · 12-03-2006, 02:22 PM

I wonder how many miles are on it :P

boxsterx · 12-03-2006, 06:44 PM

485 hp? omg!

BuffaloBoxster · 12-03-2006, 06:51 PM

When considering a car such as this one must distance themselves emotionally from the history of its owners..

When you do that you can only look at it and see how stunning it is.

The only other car I've ever though the same of was the Mercedes W196 in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum.

Rail26 · 12-03-2006, 07:05 PM

Whatever man...I personally would not buy this car...I am not a big fan of collecting paraphenalia belonging to dictators, mass murderers, or anybody else that have committed crimes against humanity. Stunning or not, the car belonged to one of the most evil men in the history of the world...there is bound to be some jacked up vibes coming from that ride. No amount of finger cymbals or Dominican witch doctors would cleanse that car. Bad Ju Ju my man. When your dog dies and your twig and berries fall off...don't say I didn't tell you so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloBoxster

When considering a car such as this one must distance themselves emotionally from the history of its owners..

When you do that you can only look at it and see how stunning it is.

The only other car I've ever though the same of was the Mercedes W196 in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum.

12-03-2006, 09:45 PM

I never knew Porsche was a pal of Hitler! I am going to sell my car right now because that would be the PC thing to do!

unklekraker · 12-03-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartagena

I never knew Porsche was a pal of Hitler! I am going to sell my car right now because that would be the PC thing to do!

ur kidding, right?

djomlas · 12-03-2006, 09:51 PM

it would be funny as hell if a rich jew bought it and burnt it

MNBoxster · 12-03-2006, 11:09 PM

Hi,

Not only was Porsche one of Hitler's cronies, but several innovations or designs were attributed to him, which he had little or nothing to do with just to bolster the Nazi Party's position with the People. One such instance was the myth that Porsche was the Father of the Volkswagen.

Actually, the Father of the People's Car (a phrase coined in Czeckoslavakia in 1923 but later adopted by the Nazis) was a designer named Hans Ledwinka working for the Koprivnicka Wagenbau of Czechoslovakia, better known as the Tatra Werks. The model was named the Tatra T-97, and featured a rear mounted horizontally opposed 4-cyl. air-cooled engine and transaxle.

This Factory, and it's designs, lay in the Sudetenland (german speaking area of Czechoslvakia) which was annexed by Germany in accord with the Munich Agreement between Great Britain (Neville Chamberlain) and Germany (Adolf Hitler) in 1938.

Porsche had been commissioned in late 1934 by the Nazi Party controlled Imperial Federation of the German Automobile Industry with 20,000 imperial marks (RM) to produce an inexpensive German Car. His designs were not meeting the requirements of the commission and in 1938, the original plans were scrapped in favor of adopting the captured plans of the Tatra T-97 which was renamed the KdF Wagen (Car). KdF stands for Kraft durch Freude which literally means Strength through Joy - one of the Nazi Party's most popular slogans.

Again, to bolster Party propoganda, Porsche was given credit for the design. But a Tribunal in 1963 ruled that the design was indeed stolen from the Tatra Werks in 1938 and was designed by Hans Ledwinka. Volkswagen AG was forced to pay 3M DM (Deutch Marks) to the heirs of the Tatra Werks owner and Hans Ledwinka. Volkswagen did not appeal the ruling and paid the required restitution. A pic below of a Tatra T-97, and the cover of a 1939 KdF Wagen Sales Brochure - you decide...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Brucelee · 12-04-2006, 06:30 AM

I believe that Porsche did some jail time after the war related to his work with the Reich.

Does anyone know if that is true?

pecivil · 12-04-2006, 08:55 AM

he got convicted by the Froggies for something, and was held in French prison for 3 or 4 years? I am not sure how long. His son worked very hard to get him out, as his sentence was 10 years I think. Ferdie (the son) was convinced his confinment led to his death.

Ronzi · 12-05-2006, 09:10 AM

Both Ferdinand and his son, Ferry, were held by the French for a brief time, some accounts holding that they were essentially ransomed back from the French by the family.
Von Frankenberg's book intimates that it was all mostly a business deal gone awry by French politics. Porsche was supposedly to design a French "peoples car" and his place of confinement turned out to be in the Renault villa in Paris.
The von Frankenberg book is usually comprehensive about early Porsche history, but this particular episode is glossed over in conspicuously sketchy fashion.

CJ_Boxster · 12-05-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Not only was Porsche one of Hitler's cronies, but several innovations or designs were attributed to him, which he had little or nothing to do with just to bolster the Nazi Party's position with the People. One such instance was the myth that Porsche was the Father of the Volkswagen.

Actually, the Father of the People's Car (a phrase coined in Czeckoslavakia in 1923 but later adopted by the Nazis) was a designer named Hans Ledwinka working for the Koprivnicka Wagenbau of Czechoslovakia, better known as the Tatra Werks. The model was named the Tatra T-97, and featured a rear mounted horizontally opposed 4-cyl. air-cooled engine and transaxle.

This Factory, and it's designs, lay in the Sudetenland (german speaking area of Czechoslvakia) which was annexed by Germany in accord with the Munich Agreement between Great Britain (Neville Chamberlain) and Germany (Adolf Hitler) in 1938.

Porsche had been commissioned in late 1934 by the Nazi Party controlled Imperial Federation of the German Automobile Industry with 20,000 imperial marks (RM) to produce an inexpensive German Car. His designs were not meeting the requirements of the commission and in 1938, the original plans were scrapped in favor of adopting the captured plans of the Tatra T-97 which was renamed the KdF Wagen (Car). KdF stands for Kraft durch Freude which literally means Strength through Joy - one of the Nazi Party's most popular slogans.

Again, to bolster Party propoganda, Porsche was given credit for the design. But a Tribunal in 1963 ruled that the design was indeed stolen from the Tatra Werks in 1938 and was designed by Hans Ledwinka. Volkswagen AG was forced to pay 3M DM (Deutch Marks) to the heirs of the Tatra Werks owner and Hans Ledwinka. Volkswagen did not appeal the ruling and paid the required restitution. A pic below of a Tatra T-97, and the cover of a 1939 KdF Wagen Sales Brochure - you decide...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Jim you are a virtual cornicopia of information. Frankly I wouldnt want to get rid of my porsche even if Adolf Hilter himself shagged a women in the front seat and soiled the dash. The p-cars of today are similar to the p-cars of yesterday in that they were brisk little track cars but thats where the similarities end. They are just AMAZING CARS! My MY97 Boxster is my first newer modern Porsche I've owned and Now Im hooked. I will continue to buy porsches for the rest of my life unless GM buys them out, then i will stop buying them.