Boxster Sales Article
 

Interesting.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/11/17/car-sales-down-forbeslife-vehicles-cx_dl_1120turkey.html

"A Porsche spokesman, explaining the decline of the company's Boxster convertible, said that sales for all roadsters in the $30,000 to $60,000 range are down 15%.
"Porsche recognized that the roadster segment has been under increasing pressure in the U.S. for several years," he wrote. This is why Porsche recently added the Cayman, a hardtop companion to the Boxster. This year, combined Boxster/Cayman sales have far exceeded last year's Boxster sales.
"Also, please note that this segment has not been a 'natural market' for some time, meaning it has seen a great deal of direct customer incentives and still suffers a 15.1% decline," he wrote. "True to its philosophy, Porsche does not offer customer incentives."

I wonder if the Boxster will be phased out at the end of 2007 or 2008 for a Cayman Cabriolet option?

If so, it's a true pity. It's a car by which all other convertible sports cars are measured and that means a great deal to me.

If Boxsters are no longer made, does the resale value of boxsters dive, rise, or stay the same?

"If Boxsters are no longer made, does the resale value of boxsters dive, rise, or stay the same?"
__________________

I would speculate that over time, this would help prop up used Boxster prices, all things being equal.

"Hello Mr. Porsche dude Reality called while you were out of the office."

"oh yeah? what did they have to say?"

"Reality said that the Boxster is too expensive."

"ehhh.......is that shnitzel I smell coming from the employee cafe?!!
oh yeah did Mr. Electric Cash Counting Machine call?
Tell them we need another 10,000 machines"

Interesting thoughts. If they market a new Boxster as a Cayman cabrio or roadster they could then charge a premium for the droptop as with the 911.

The value for original and very good condition or better Boxsters will eventually rise, but it will take a while for them to get rare.

The low prices for used Boxes will contribute to this by putting them in the category of "I don't need no stinkin' 120,000 mile service." Then they will eventually become parts cars or yard art.

Historically soft tops have done better than coupes in the marketplace. Look at the 356 market now.

Reminds me of...
 

...a thread I started awhile back:"is the Boxster the next 944?". Don't know what will happen to the value of these cars if they cease production.

J. Tucker
'99 Arctic Silver
'98 318ti

I would be surprised if they dropped the Box. It shares many parts with the Cayman and I am sure the amortized cost of this car is actually pretty low for Porsche.

It would be a shame if they did. In my opinion, it is the best value auto they make.

really? that must mean you think Every Car Porsche has on offer is horrible value.
For the numbers on paper (it is a sports car afterall) the Boxster is not a value at all. Its really the caviar of roadsters. I mean fish eggs really aren't worth XXX dollars are they?? But to the target market they are indeed.

The marketplace seems to have had enough of caviar and would rather spend the luxury dollars on items a bit higher up on the price menu like the overpriced kobe beef (aka Carrera)

Roadsters are a niche market and what will spike numbers is the ability of the manufacturer to hype the car with either 'gotta have it' styling or some other buzz to attract non-roadster types to go for it. Porsche like BMW, Merc, Honda, etc.
have failed to attract those atypical roadster buyers with 987, Z4, S2000 and SLK.
A Cayman buyer is completely different type of buyer than a Boxster guy,
I can't believe the Porsche dude even brought up the Cayman to save face.

"really? that must mean you think Every Car Porsche has on offer is horrible value."

Only if you think the Boxster is a poor value.

Obviously I don't think that is the case.

Having said that, they COULD lower the Box price and I would be happier for it.

I would be suprized if they dropped the Box.....but the bottom line is if they do, they will have to replace it with something else as the "entry level car". Cause if their cheapest car is a Cayman for 60 large, Porsche has got problems.

Do they remember the dark days of 94 and 94 when they sold a very small number fo cars?

They cant live on 911's and Cayman's alone. Maybe the SUV makes up for it. I dunno.

My prediction :

I can see Porsche in the future offering three models :

The Cayenne ( SUV ), the Panamera ( Sedan ), and the 911 ( Sport ).

IMHO,

Nick

I think that the sales figures for new Boxsters are simply a function of supply and demand. There is limited demand for roadsters and many choices at different price levels.

For example, a roadster buyer could pick up a decent used Miata for $3500-$5000, a nice used Boxster for $22,000-$26,000 or a new Boxster for $50,000-$70,000. Some people who could afford a new Boxster are opting for a good used one and that is directly affecting new Boxster sales. There are also alternative roadsters from other manufacturers that cut into demand for Boxsters.
When the Boxster debuted, there simply wasn't a good alternative in the used car market. If you wanted the Boxster's looks, performance and prestige you had to buy a new one.

Many folks tire of roadsters after their three-year lease expires and don't replace their Boxsters with a new one. The replacement market now reflects a stable number of "hard core" roadster lovers and the limited number of first-time buyers who decide they prefer new over used. The folks who jumped on the Boxster because it was the next great thing have moved on leaving lower overall demand for the car.

It's not the end of the world. There is nothing wrong with the Boxster. It's just simple economics.

Hi,

All good, thoughtful observations. But, it still doesn't alter the fact that Boxster Sales are now in their 6th consecutive year of decline.

If this continues, it won't take an Economics Professor to speculate on the outcome...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I can't see them dropping the Boxster. Boxster sales are tough at the current pricing. Cayman sales appear to be good at 4-5k more than the Boxster but there's still a lot of deal making going on about the cost at least they seem to get discounted pretty heavily locally putting them right on par with the Boxster. It's actually pretty hard to find the Boxster you want it seems, just aren't alot around compared to the Caymans. If they drop the Boxster for a Cayman cabriolet they'd basically be adding 10k to the cost of a car that looks and behaves exactly like the current Boxster. All they'd really have to do is put a Cayman badge on the back of the 987 Boxster. I don't think it would sell without steep discounts but what do I know. I think they've positioned their model line-up really well right now from a pricing perspective. Boxsters seem to be selling pretty close to msrp with Caymans slightly below so the grumbling about the ragtop costing more than the hardtop probably doesn't reflect pricing reality. The Boxster name carries a very well known and a real asset as well. I think they would take a long hard look at dropping such a well recognized name. They Cayman's a great car but it will take time for the name to roll of the tongue of Porsche lexicon. Their focus is on the Panamera right now I think which fills another great niche. Nice talk about their plans here.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/112_0607_porsche_911_gt3_panamera/index.html

As I posted on PPBB, the Porsche spokesman's explanation is pure BS when you consider other cars in the market had much better October YTD sales figures. Honda S2000 was down around 18%, Mercedes SLK was down only 2.8% and Corvette was UP 17.7%. You can't explain a 42%+ drop by saying the sector was down around 15%.

With 200,000 Boxsters produced, this car is losing its exclusivity. It's gone mass market. As a result, you're getting a lot more first-time buyers (not Porsche purists, as in the past) who want the nameplate because it still has cache. They drive one for a while, say, "What's the big deal?" and then move on to another make. I would bet there are a lot of people who took a first-time chance on a Boxster, were underwhelmed (because they had different expectations), then went on to something like a Lexus SC430 or a Mercedes SLK and found they could be just as happy -- or happier. Unless you can appreciate the finer aspects of handling that you get with a Porsche, you might rather have more wood, leather, a much better stereo and a hardtop that you get with the Lexus -- not to mention the overall better service experience.

All I can say is that I find it hard to believe that my 987S has lost nearly a quarter of its value from MSRP in the 17 months that I've owned it. I had a bad sales experience, a difficult delivery situation (with PCNA not being that much help) and the one-year service from the dealer took four days (for 3.8 hours worth of work, and I'm still waiting four months to hear about my replacement windstop). Then I go to the forums and read about a pretty significant number of low-mileage engine failures, when I've never had a single failure in all the years I've owned a wide variety of other brands. When I put this all together and slap a $60K pricetag on it, I understand why I now have no loyalty to Porsche and probably won't buy another. Maybe I'm not alone and maybe that's the true reason behind the sales decline.

^ ouch

Its a cyclical story with Porsche. They go high and then get ahead of themselves piss off their fans and then they go low only to resurrect from near death.
I'd say they approaching their latest crest.
You can do those sort of things when you barely make any cars when compared to BMW, Merc, Honda and the others who are doing better with their roadsters.

Perfectlap, that's a much better and more succinct explanation than my long rant. I guess the fans will always be loyal, no matter how much abuse they take. But with today's larger production numbers, there are many more people who are being exposed to the downside of Porsche ownership for the first time and finding it not worth the trouble or expense.

I can only wish that Porsche drops the Boxster right now, and never bother with a Cayman Convertible. I know nothing about how classics are created but for some reason I believe the Boxster has the making of a classic 10-20yrs from now. There just something timeless about the look and the design.

The Boxster numbers should be looked in combination with the Boxster Coupe (Cayman) numbers. It's the same car with a different roof. Porsche intentionally flooded the market with Caymans these last couple of years in unison with a strong marketing campaign normal for any new model coming out. This always hurts the existing model. On top of it, they cut the Boxster allocations to dealers. Browse through the online inventories and it is obvious that even after much stronger sales for Caymans there are still much more Caymans then Boxsters in inventory.

longislander1, sorry you've been having such a bad experience with your Boxster ownership. Without a hint of sarcasm, you should consider cutting your losses and getting rid of it. It's not worth keeping something if it will remind you of misery more than it will produce pleasure.

Z.

On a sort of related note, I wonder how many car manufacturers actually make plans for the "end of the model" before they release it? I know they plan for "freshening" every so many years, but do they ever try to anticipate the end? I know this would be somewhat of a shot in the dark, but they have years of experience and a ton of marketing people on staff that might just know a thing or two about trends. On top of that I'm sure they have a gazillion MBA's that focus on strategic planning.

Sammy, I definitely think they consider the end of the model and set thresholds on sales numbers to indicate when it's time to stop producing the model or shift the attention to a new model, etc.

We saw that with the introduction of the hard top, 2.7 Boxster called the Cayman . :rolleyes:

It provided a new entry level Porsche below the Boxster as it aged.

I was thinking more along the lines of say when Porsche introduced the Cayenne, what was the business plan like? Do they have a number of vehicles that they expect to produce during the lifetime before they think they'll have to kill it? Or is it like the old VW Beetle where VW will make them as long as they can sell them?

(The Cayman is a "freshening" in my opinion, kind of like the Zthing that BMW makes.)

I totally agree with you about the classic lines. It's one thing I like about my 987S. That's why it's such a shame sales are down and depreciation is so great.

My problems are very minor compared to other posters here and on other sites. I was only trying to point out that first-time owners coming from other premium makes may simply be buying the Porsche nameplate and don't really care as much as some of us do about the handling or other fine mechanical aspects. Their expectations on the technical side may be such that they'd be perfectly happy in a Lexus or Mercedes sports model, even if we know those cars aren't as good.

And if they come from other premium brands and have already had an exceptional sales, service and manufacturer support experience, they'll think that the Porsche's high price will automatically guarantee the same experience. I can imagine a Lexus owner putting up $60-large for his wife's Boxster and asking these questions:
What do you mean you won't pick my wife's car at our home for the service appointment? My Lexus dealer does that.
Why can't I have a Porsche as a loaner? Why are you giving me a rented Chevy when the other dealer gives me a Lexus?
Why is your shop so disorganized and messy? Why isn't my car ready on time?
Why did the engine fail at 30,000 miles? That doesn't happen on my Lexus or any of my other cars.
Why am I paying so much extra for power seats and xenon headlights? How come there's no MP3 connection?
This Porsche cost almost as much as my Lexus LS. Why don't I get the same features or treatment?
Why do I call PCNA for help and get routed by a clerk right back to the dealer (who's not helping me at all)?

I could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea. We may love Boxsters, but I bet the word is spreading among the current or potential newbies that they can get a better overall experience elsewhere.

I picked my 987S over all roadsters. It was about the ride not the dealer experience. I don't care about the dealer experience. If you need to spend money to be pampered buy a lexus. They have an exceptionaly ugly convertible retractable hard top roadster. I drive my 987S on the weekends and love it. Unbelievable driving experience. Remember Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world. They will never discount, they sell what them make and the Cayman was another vehicle to keep the boxster line alive.

longislander1:
"I could go on and on, but I hope you get the idea. We may love Boxsters, but I bet the word is spreading among the current or potential newbies that they can get a better overall experience elsewhere."

I think Porsches never really sold on sales/dealer experience. Since what you described is nothing new, I don't think that any words are spreading or that anybody is going to change their minds and buy a Lexus instead of a Porsche.

For me, things are simple: I just LOVE driving and looking at my Box S in a way I have never felt about any other car. So perhaps, a little bit of reason gets taken over by passion, but that's not bad in my book. On the contrary, you only live once. :)

Z.

The Boxster is (IMHO) a great car(for what it is). The dealers and the company, on average, do not live up to the car they created. Too bad, for the money, they SHOULD!

Again, in my opinion. Imagine if the car AND the dealers were that great!

Hi,

Sorry, but you really are either not so aware of cars in general or FANATICALLY loyal to Porsche and Boxsters, so much so as to cloud your judgement!

The Lexus SC430 is on of the finest GT Cabriolets available under $70k. Notice I said GT - by definition not a Sports Car. If you are comparing it to the Boxster, you may as well throw a '49 Studebaker Pickup in the mix, because they are all very different.

But, the Lexus has style (you love or hate it, but with Style there is no wrong answer). Long list of standard features incl. 4.3L 300HP V8, Leather, Wood, HIDs, Excellent Stereo, Traction Control, Fit & Finish, great warranty, service, resale.

It may not be the car for you, that's OK. But, there ain't a lot wrong about it. About the only thing in review upon review is a lack of Trunk space - 8.8 ft³, but still more than the Miata, XK8, M3 Cab, Z4...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Speaking of preparing for future market, don't forget BMW has also been planning ahead with the other strategy, going under 30k.

BMW Z2

Maybe Porsche better consider either vastly improving the interior luxury or the powerplant if they want to keep the Boxster spot secure. Performance was one of the key reasons I didn't consider a Miata or Solstice. But to see beefy turbo versions now with 250, 300 hp for ~30k including a bimmer, the Boxster might have a tough time at 60....

-David

There is a fascinating comparo in this months Road and Track mag. It is a base Cayman and a Audi TT. The evaluation raises interesting issues, as the TT is a bit faster straight line AND on the street handling test. The other interesting issue is that they say the Audi's manumatic is the faster shifting trans vs the manual Cayman!

They love both cars and I can see why. What is equally interesting is that the Cayman is about $18K MORE than the TT.

I think the cost issue for a Porsche is going to become an increasingly big hurdle for buyers to get over. I do think that nearly $60K for a base Cayman is getting kind of silly, but hey, that is me.

I had the same reaction as Brucelee regarding the TT-Cayman comparison and the price difference. The competition is now catching up on technology and it's already well past Porsche in customer service. Meanwhile, instead of developing brand loyalty by improving the ownership experience, Porsche is off creating the Panamera, including a hybrid version. I'm tellin' ya, a minivan can't be far off!

I consider myself fortunate to own a vehicle from the top autmotive companies from the US, Japan and Germany.

05 Chevy truck: 45k hard miles and nearly flawless( the CD player stopped working recently. It gets lousey gas mileage and wallows through a turn like a double ended keelboat in heavy seas.

00 Lexus: 165K miles and flawless. It still looks nearly new and nothing has ever failed on it...ever. Only regular PM and fluids. It drives like a leather couch on wheels. I nearly have to take NoDoze before driving it...so smooth...and so boring.

98 Boxter: 68k miles, no major problems, lots of little nusiance failures. CEL, coolant tank, soft top relay loose, nursing the plastic rear window, key issues, and surely the most fun I have ever had on 4 wheels. I have gone a lot faster, I have had a lot more HP, but nothing else was nearly as much fun as my little Box.

From my perspective German cars (Porsche Audi BMW Benz VW) are way ahead in terms of tactile driving experience and way behind in terms of nusiance failures.
If Porsche really wants to sell more cars they can no longer afford to build cars with all these little annoyances. It is not rocket science. Even lowly Hyundai has figured this out and its new cars are excellent quality throughout. Just do what the Japanese do and assign a team to "engineer out" nuisance failures like RMS, window mechanism, ign switch, soft top mech, CEL, coolant tank etc. If we can put a man on the moon surely we can overcome these simple failures. Every major US and JP car Mfg. is working towards this.

By making their cars more "owner friendly" they will attract a much larger market share who are no longer afraid to "Buy German".

One sometimes gets the feeling that Porsche has NO interest in resolving these "glitches" in their quality failures. It is preplexing indeed!

Could be the German arrogance showing? For the record, I am German!

I read that article and the writer of that article still picked the Cayman despite its price. The Audi is great for the daily commute, but the Porsche is still the pick for enthusiasts that take their car to autocrosses and track days....or simply enjoy a great roadster that rewards on the spirited drive. I also noticed that the Cayman was faster in the upper speed relm, so the TT may have it down low due to the AWD and TQ advantage, but the Cayman catches it and passes it in the upper speed relm due to better areodynamics.

Hi,

You make several points, but remember, it was the US which put a man on the moon, not the Federal Republic of Germany...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

After owning mostly premium German or Japanese cars, I continue to be astonished by the quality, durability, handling and acceleration of my $22K built-in-Michigan Mazda Tribute. I originally bought it as a station car and had fairly low expectations, but now I use it as a daily driver in bad weather and in the winter. I know we're talking apples and oranges here, but I'm already starting to get rattles in the 987S at 6300 miles, while the Mazda, which I drive fairly hard, is still as tight as a drum at over 47K. As I've reported here before, my Mazda dealer service is excellent.

I think we're now in a period where you don't have to spend a lot of money to ensure quality. When it comes to sports cars, that should be a warning sign for Porsche that it's time to offer more value and better customer service.

This is true. But it was Von Braun, the former German rocket scientist who brought us the technology for a sucessful launch vehicle.

There are some very bright engineers in the German auto industry. I just fear that they may be blindly following the failed policy of "planned obsolesence" that nearly wiped out US auto makers during the 80's. Toyota/Lexus has shown us that in a world market, having people clammoring to buy one because your product is so good is far more effective than forcing them to buy another one because the car they bought 3 years ago is falling apart.

From Boxster/Cayman to Cayenne to new 4-door to 911
 

As a public company Porsche is going to try and increase their profits and seek a larger share of the overall car market. That's why we have an SUV now and 4-door sedan on the way. For Porsche at least, the Boxster/Cayman is an entry-level model for the brand and I think they'll need to keep in the $45K game if they want to continue to bring new "life-long" buyers into the fold.

In regards to decreasing Boxster sales: I think Boxster sales are down because only people like us see the differences in the 986 and 987. In the long term-- if Porsche is going to keep the Boxster around-- it's a good strategy (look at the 911). But if they drop the Boxster due to poor sales, then I think they can contribute that drop in sales to a percieved lack of evolution in the model range. Right now the average potential new car roadster buyer sees an updated Z4 and SLK along with a Boxster and S2000 that look the same as they did ten years ago (though we know that both are improved). Maybe that buyer needs more evolution to get them into dealerships.

i think porsche would be very smart to get out of the boxster convertible market. i would end the boxster and continue into the future with the cayman. it's a flooded market everyone is making a cheap convertible's now a days. saturn, pontiac, nissan, vw...these 4 car manufactuers have 4 cars that would give the boxster a good fight, for $20,000 less.

i see the death of the boxster.

If they stop making the Boxster the car will be an instant classic and the value will be exceptional. Used Boxsters in my area, SE PA, sell very, very fast. They are the bread and butter of monthly profits at the dealerships. Porsche will drop it once the profit margins are no longer there. Who knows we may be reaching that point. They are more expensive to make than the Cayman but retail is less. Personally I think the Boxster name is such a great trademark with instant recognition that if they do drop it, it won't be replaced by a Cayman convertible. If they drop the Boxster it will because the roadster market is saturated and the profit margins aren't there. A Cayman convertible won't be able to make any more sales and profit than a Boxster, particularly when you consider that it'd be pushing $75k US with moderate oprtions. I hope they do drop the Boxster. I'd own one of the last couple thousand made. :cheers: