Boxster S 2nd Gear Pop Out, Does that mean the end? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

nuvolari · 09-25-2021, 07:11 PM

Looking at a 2000 Boxster S and 2nd gear is having issues. I've read a bunch online and have seen the G Box Detent fix but what I don't know is if the pop out causes damage to the trans or if it is a symptom that the damage is already done.

I was able to shift into 2nd sometimes and it was ok. Other times, it felt like I shifted ok only to release the clutch and feel the lever pop out of the gear. And at other times, while it felt like I was in 2nd gear and the lever was completely in what should be 2nd gear, I would release the clutch and find no gear was engaged and would have to engage the clutch again and pull harder into 2nd to find the gear.

So my question is if this 6 speed is salvageable or if I should walk away? Will the G Box Detent keep 2nd gear from popping out or is the popping out a sign that damage is done?

https://www.gboxweb.com/detent.html

Silber · 09-27-2021, 02:52 PM

I had the same issue, bought the car anyway.

Gbox detent did not help, eventually it got worse and would pop out anytime you accelerated or decelerated.

Fix was to have CMS (reputable Porsche trans builder) put in a new second gear. $4k all told, including freight for the transmission on a pallet there and back. I did all the R&R labor myself, I don’t know what a shop would charge if you had to go that route. Maybe an additional $1-2K?

I would say proceed as if you will have to put in a second gear, factor that into the price. My understanding is other than the second gear issue Boxster S 986 6spd transmissions are pretty bulletproof. CMS has a special procedure for installing the new gear that should prevent recurrence.

Silber

dghii · 09-27-2021, 07:24 PM

I did the gbox fix on 2000S years ago and it worked wonders. In my case, my car would occasionally pop back into neutral from second when shifted into second. It didn't happen that often nor did it ever pop out while driving.

nuvolari · 10-02-2021, 09:28 PM

Hmmm, thanks for the insight and looks like I have a 50% chance of a GBox fix. I just bought the car and I can almost get 2nd but it is tricky. It seems like there is not enough reach on the cable to push the lever into gear. Almost like something isn't adjusted properly. I saw in some service records I have that the transmission shifting cable was replaced a few years ago.
Well, I'll see what happens....

nuvolari · 10-03-2021, 12:55 PM

Did you guys install the GBox part yourselves? How difficult is it to get to? Can it be done without loosening or detaching motor/transmission mounts or anything else substantial?

Silber · 10-08-2021, 09:18 AM

Was really easy to install, you take out a single bolt, slide out the old one, slide in the new one, tighten the bolt, done.

dghii · 10-15-2021, 04:55 PM

Silber is a better man than me! It is one bolt but in my experience, it went from looking impossible to getting it done in about an hour. Car was on a lift, it’s just that the bolt is a little awkward to get at. Old part came out without the spring IIRC. Had to maneuver a magnet into the hole to fish out the spring. All easy putting now part in place.

Been a few years ago but I don’t recall messing with any mounts to get access.

You can do it!

Spyder_Man · 10-15-2021, 07:32 PM

You might check the motor/transmission mounts for excess play as well. I went ahead and had a Gbox unit installed in my 2003 S along with IMS solution upon vehicle purchase just to not worry about either issue down the road.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dghii · 10-16-2021, 09:23 PM

Only one other data point to add. My car had a little over 116K miles when I installed the Gbox unit. I sold the car a 4 years later with 134K miles without any other shifting issue.

nuvolari · 10-21-2021, 09:42 AM

Arggghhh, got the Allen bolt plug off with lots of heat (torch) and then attempted the "easy" part of removing the old detent and installing the gbox version and that's when it all went to ****! The old detent would not come out with a magnet. So I called gbox and they said to use an easy out. Got the easy out and attempted that. At first, nothing. Then with a little heat, it would move up and down about a half an inch but still wouldn't come out. Then the easy out kept popping out and I couldn't get enough pulling force. So I started tightening the EO a bit more. Still popping out. So a bit tighter. But never excessively in the least. Then a loud pop! Hmmm, what the heck? Used a mirror to look into the tranny and saw that the detent was now cracked! Yup, hardened steel cracked with not much effort at all. Gbox said there's no way but I can see it. Of course now the crack has expanded the diameter and it won't come out at all. Arggghhh!
So now out comes the box. And now gbox says the detent won't fix my problems and the tranny needs new pinions and probably 2nd gear. Arggghhh! Of course, I won't know for sure until I remove gear box, install detent and reinstall. And I was planning on IMS, RMS and possibly clutch while the box was out. But I won't even know if I have 2nd gear until after spending all the IMS, etc money unless I enjoy removing and reinstalling the transmission which I can guess right now, I will not!
And if the car needs a transmission rebuild, I'm not sure it's worth fixing. I would probably rather part it and put it out of its misery (and mine!)
So, out of town for some work while I ponder the intricacies/miseries/wonders of Boxster S ownership!
Sure do miss driving it though....

JustinS · 10-21-2021, 10:56 AM

You could always throw in a cheap 5 speed. You would need 2.7L rear brakes, spindles, carriers, ebrake cables, and CV joints. It wouldnt be a downgrade in terms of braking capability. You would need a 2.7L clutch kit/flywheel but that's not really any additional cost if you were going to change it and do the IMS anyways. I have a 5 speed with my 3.2L engine and it's great.

Swapping it over is a lot easier than parting the car out. You could sell the S items and get close to breaking even.

nuvolari · 10-24-2021, 10:37 PM

Removed the tranny yesterday, it's really fairly easy compared to other cars in that there is lots of room back there on the boxster to get to most of the bolts. Annoying part is that Porsche made many of the bolts much longer than necessary so get a powered tool or enjoy the yoga/pilates stretching workout to remove them!
However, I still can't get the detent out! It just won't come out so I guess I'll have to separate the transaxle case. I'm just worried about resealing it as I can't tell if there's a gasket or sealant (probably, but what kind?) and the torque spec. Hopefully gbox will answer their phone and tell me. (Just try and google to see the interior of a Porsche transmission! Absolutely nothing! 986 owners aren't very DIY or adventurous! Oh, wait, one pic. From a site that'll sell you a rebuilt 6 speed for only $6949! That's more than I paid for the car!)
Still hoping the gbox detent gives me 2nd gear but not sure what to do if it doesn't. Probably look for a used 6 speed but not many out there.
By the way, what's a 6 speed with a bad 2nd gear worth? Just curious if I recoup any money with the old one....

nuvolari · 10-11-2022, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silber

I had the same issue, bought the car anyway.

Gbox detent did not help, eventually it got worse and would pop out anytime you accelerated or decelerated.

Fix was to have CMS (reputable Porsche trans builder) put in a new second gear. $4k all told, including freight for the transmission on a pallet there and back. I did all the R&R labor myself, I don’t know what a shop would charge if you had to go that route. Maybe an additional $1-2K?

I would say proceed as if you will have to put in a second gear, factor that into the price. My understanding is other than the second gear issue Boxster S 986 6spd transmissions are pretty bulletproof. CMS has a special procedure for installing the new gear that should prevent recurrence.

Silber

Silber, did your rebuild address the pinion bearing? I have my transmission (and engine) out of the car with the transmission case removed also. I had to take that off to remove the detent which was spread eagle and would have never come out the way it's supposed to.

And I also found this on the magnet so I assume some of the sealed bearings are gone.

That 5 speed route seems much, much more affordable although a bit more work but at this point, it's definitely a thought.

nuvolari · 10-11-2022, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinS

You could always throw in a cheap 5 speed. You would need 2.7L rear brakes, spindles, carriers, ebrake cables, and CV joints. It wouldnt be a downgrade in terms of braking capability. You would need a 2.7L clutch kit/flywheel but that's not really any additional cost if you were going to change it and do the IMS anyways. I have a 5 speed with my 3.2L engine and it's great.

Swapping it over is a lot easier than parting the car out. You could sell the S items and get close to breaking even.

I've thought about this before but didn't find much documentation on it anywhere. Do you have any threads about your conversion?

And of course, I have already bought the 6 speed flywheel and clutch. What's the difference between the two different flywheels? I know the clutch disc splines are different but what about the pressure plate? Could I use a 5 speed clutch disc with the 6 speed flywheel and pressure plate or is the overall diameter different?

TIA

pilot4fn · 10-11-2022, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuvolari

Could I use a 5 speed clutch disc with the 6 speed flywheel and pressure plate or is the overall diameter different?

TIA

Based on this, the same set of flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc works with 5 and 6 speeds:
https://www.aascomotorsports.com/collections/porsche/products/106412-11-pkg-porsche-boxster-cayman-flywheel-sachs-clutch-kit

nuvolari · 10-12-2022, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot4fn

Based on this, the same set of flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc works with 5 and 6 speeds:
https://www.aascomotorsports.com/collections/porsche/products/106412-11-pkg-porsche-boxster-cayman-flywheel-sachs-clutch-kit

Thanks for the link as that led me to research a bunch of sites which revealed the specs for the various M96 clutches and flywheels.

And I learned that the size and spline count is the same for both engines at 240mm and 23 teeth so I guess they will "fit." However, I think the difference may lie in the weight and balance or other M96 cryptic possibilities simply because the clutches and flywheels are not very often shareable between the different engines and/or transmissions. For example, the 986S has a specific pressure plate and clutch disc with a 986 part number. Strangely, though, it shares the flywheel part number with the 996. And even stranger, the Sachs site in Germany doesn't list a 986 clutch part number and instead shows a 996 kit while in the States, they have a 986 specific clutch.
So, who knows what's going on but I do know I don't want to be caught out using a clutch or flywheel that creates an imbalance which will lead to, you guessed it, catastrophic engine failure!
(When I get this car running, that'll be my personalized plate: CTNFAIL.)

On my 2000 986S, you can even see giant labeling of "986S" which is very strange for a part that lives inside the bell housing. (Those crazy Germans must get their passions out somehow, I guess!)