Door speaker recommendations? - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

KevinH1990 · 02-25-2021, 05:47 PM

I want to determine the maximum mounting depth I can consider when selecting a replacement speaker.

The stock speaker is 2.5 inches deep:

The total depth of the enclosure is slightly less than 3 inches:

I expect that stuffing a speaker that is too deep into the enclosure so that the bottom of the speaker makes contact with the back of the enclosure may cause problems so it is likely best to avoid speakers that are over 2.9 inches deep.

I bought this enclosure so that I could practice and evaluate various options before modifying the enclosures in my car. I may decide to stay with a 5.5 inch speaker like the stock units and just upgrade the quality of the component.

Cunningr · 02-25-2021, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH1990

I want to determine the maximum mounting depth I can consider when selecting a replacement speaker.

The stock speaker is 2.5 inches deep:

The total depth of the enclosure is slightly less than 3 inches:

I expect that stuffing a speaker that is too deep into the enclosure so that the bottom of the speaker makes contact with the back of the enclosure may cause problems so it is likely best to avoid speakers that are over 2.9 inches deep.

I bought this enclosure so that I could practice and evaluate various options before modifying the enclosures in my car. I may decide to stay with a 5.5 inch speaker like the stock units and just upgrade the quality of the component.

There is some room to use I think a .25” adapter to give you some extra depth. I will check the speaker depth on my box. You have to watch the room between the door panel to. There are some thin mount 6.5” speakers.

azlvr · 02-27-2021, 05:33 AM

I made my 6.5" adapter plate out of 3/4" MDF which gave me an extra 3/4".

KevinH1990 · 02-27-2021, 07:40 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I'm continuing to identify options.

Option 1 - Put subwoofers in the doors. This option requires some additional work because I don't think the 40 watts available from the Haes 6-channel amp will provide sufficient power. I installed a double DIN head unit a few years ago and I could install a second amp that accepts an RCA input from the head unit. That is a bigger project than I want to tackle right now, but I could find some time in a few months. I installed an amp in my other car and it will actually be an easier job in the Boxster because the battery, amp and speaker wires are in the front trunk. If I decide on this option, I will combine it with my plan to repair the HVAC control doors. I will need to pull out the head unit for that job and running the RCA cable to the trunk will add a few minutes of work. I also need to tap into the amp control signal wire.

I haven't identified an ideal choice for a sub. There are some fairly pricey speakers that could fit but I was hoping to keep the part cost down. I had good results with Dayton Audio speakers in other cars and this sub https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DCS165-4-6-1-2-Classic-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-198 looked like a good choice from a price perspective. But, I am not sure it will fit even with the a 3/4" adapter plate azlvr used.

Option 2 - Install a woofer that can be powered by the Haes amp. This one may work with an adapter plate. https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DC160-4-6-1-2-Classic-Woofer-Speaker-295-309 I wouldn't expect the same results I could achieve with a woofer and a separate amp, but I wonder how much difference I would be able to hear while driving. During the winter when I have the hard top on my car, the audio doesn't have to compete with as much noise. But, in the summer with the soft top up or down, the audio system has to compete with so many other sound sources that I would need to spend a lot of money and time before I could hear a real difference. Based on the feedback from azlvr and Cunningr this woofer would fit with some modification to the speaker enclosure and either an mdf or plastic adapter.

Option 3 - Use a 5.25 inch woofer like this one from Crutchfield: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13649000/JL-Audio-C5-525cw-RP.html?tp=70205 The advantage of this is that it will drop right in, but it is pricey. Most of the folks who have upgraded also seem to think a 5.25 inch woofer has inherent disadvantages due to size that are difficult to overcome.

Option 4 - Find a woofer from a component speaker set and use it without the tweeter. This seems to be a good compromise solution. This seems to be a possibility: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SS65C/Alpine-S-S65C.html?tp=78072

CBRacerX · 03-29-2021, 05:34 AM

I am on this journey now as well with same car (2001 Hi Fi Audio). Following with interest as I would like to get a drop in door speaker. I’ve resigned myself to replacing the amp and researching a 5 channel option for that. Door speakers are my biggest unknown.

Stl-986 · 03-29-2021, 05:53 AM

Do yourself a favor. Replace the factory amp. Go with a MB Quart na2-500.5 Use any 5 1/4 sub from a component set. It will just drop in. Wire to doors to the sub output of the amp. This then allows you to wire up speakers in the storage tray for the rears. I have this setup in 2 Boxsters. Amp will go in the factory location as well. Replacing the dash speakers will make the most impact as the factory original ones are most likely shot at this point for most cars. Of course to do it right you need a HU that has 6 channel output but if that isn't the case there are ways to split out the front or rear and connect to the sub input.

Good news is that the wiring is already at the same place as the amp for the door speakers so you dont need to run new wires, which is an absolute pain on these cars.

If you want to do rear speakers let me know, I have a write up as well as brackets & cloth for the storage tray so it looks factory and allows you to use 3 1/2" speakers.

CBRacerX · 03-29-2021, 08:56 AM

Not to derail from the OP but I took a look at the MB Quart na2-500.5 since I am shopping 5 channel amps now. It seemed a bit weak on the 4 channels - at 4 ohms (which is what my replacement speakers are) it is only 40w/channel. That’s the same as the OEM (Nokia?) amp rating. If anyone has a 5 channel amp they like that puts out 80+ watts per channel at 4 ohms I’d love to hear about it.

Stl-986 · 03-29-2021, 10:11 AM

most 5 channel & 6 channel amps will still be on the lower side for the 4 channels @ 4ohm. Usually they top out at 50amp x4 & the rest is going to go to the sub channel.

Another alternative is of course multiple amps. such as an amp for the front & rear and one for the door subs. Down size is that the amp will be way over powered usually. Add in space and wiring to the battery it gets pretty crowded.

Realistically though anything more then 50x4 is going to be more then enough in any convertible. Still though there are a multitude of options. I went with the MB amp cause it meant I wouldn't be taking up any additional space and I wouldn't have to extend or re-wire the door speakers. I'm also one that would rather have the amp be smaller then the speakers that way I can't blow them out and I prefer to keep things clean and "stock-ish"

subieworx · 03-30-2021, 04:08 AM

How about these in the doors? I read of someone installing them a while back.

https://www.earthquakesound.com/~earthqv2/index.php/en/car-audio-division/car-products/car-subwoofers/item/sws65

JavPit · 03-30-2021, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subieworx

How about these in the doors? I read of someone installing them a while back.

https://www.earthquakesound.com/~earthqv2/index.php/en/car-audio-division/car-products/car-subwoofers/item/sws65

I tried that and the results were disappointing. There is just not enough air for them to move with the door enclosures. You just can't get good low frequencies out of the door. Go with a full range speaker run off of an aftermarket amp. If you want more base look into a amplified foot well sub.

CBRacerX · 03-30-2021, 06:21 AM

After far too much time looking I decided to give these a try. Focal W/130AS 5.25" 50W RMS AS Line Midbass Drivers from 130AS Component Set. I'm replacing factory amp with MB Quart FA1-900.5 Formula Series 900-Watt 5-Channel Class AB+D Amp.

Using a cheap Nokia 996 factory amp to scavenge the connector plugs from. I'll use those to make interconnects for the aftermarket amp wiring connections.

subieworx · 03-31-2021, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JavPit

I tried that and the results were disappointing. There is just not enough air for them to move with the door enclosures. You just can't get good low frequencies out of the door. Go with a full range speaker run off of an aftermarket amp. If you want more base look into a amplified foot well sub.

Thanks for the info.

I can't take any footwell room as I already do not fit in the car.

I have used those all in one slim subs before in trucks with good results. I wonder if I could put one behind the seats in the storage area and get something from it. That with new amped drivers in the doors may be what I am looking for.

Cunningr · 03-31-2021, 01:57 PM

I modified a footwell sub from a cabriolet 996, holds a 8” driver. Dies decent job filling in the lows. The way it fits doesnt it only takes some passenger room from left not length. No one has commented it being in the way.

KevinH1990 · 05-21-2022, 07:02 PM

I had several higher priorities and I wasn't able to find time to work on my speaker upgrade. I note that it has been over a year since I last commented on this topic.

I had an issue with the passenger door handle microswitch which required that I remove the door panel. Because I had the door panel off, I took advantage of the synergy and plunged into the door speaker project.

Several months ago, I purchased two of these woofers from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DC160-4-6-1-2-Classic-Woofer-Speaker-295-309

I understood that the impedance of this speaker is nominally 4 ohms, but it was the closest I could find to the 2-ohm impedance of the OEM door speaker. I'm using the two door speaker channels on a 6 X 40 watt Haes amp from a 996 Cabriolet to provide power. I may eventually add an amp to provide more power. The Haes amp provides only low frequencies to the door speakers, but I'm not sure of the range. I expect that the range is different from that provided by the subwoofer output on my double din head unit.

The biggest challenges I faced were fitting the speaker in the enclosure that holds the OEM speaker and then fitting that assembly under the door panel. There are videos on YouTube that provide suggestions. However, each speaker is slightly different and the "YouTube" method didn't work for me. The "YouTube" video involved cutting the top off of part of the speaker enclosure to make room for a larger speaker.

After removing the top of the enclosure, the method called for mounting the speaker on a piece of MDF (medium density fiberboard.) Unfortunately, this process created a part that was too big to fit under the door panel:

After some futile attempts at adjusting the fit, I contacted a mobile stereo installation technician and requested assistance. The technician used what appeared to be a grinding stone that attached to his electric drill to whittle away part of the enclosure. This allowed the enclosure to accept the speaker without totally removing the top. He sandwiched a piece of adhesive-backed foam between the speaker and the enclosure for a tight fit. The resulting assembly was just small enough to fit under the door panel:

I expect that you are wondering whether I am pleased with the results. Based on the difference in size and a comparison of the build quality, the new speakers look like they should sound better.

Appearance is not the most important factor in audio. Sound quality is what matters. Obviously, I cannot do an A-B test and alternate between listening to the new speakers and the OEM speakers. My impression is that I have significantly better bass response, but it is not as good as my other car which has an 8-inch subwoofer installed in the shelf behind the rear seat.

I'm glad I finally completed my speaker upgrade, but I'm disappointed that I needed to call on a pro for assistance. (It also cost me $80 and the technician and I had difficulty meshing our schedules which was inconvenient.) I will use my new speakers with the 6 X 40 amp before deciding whether to add a separate amp. I expect that a little more power might be helpful.

Stl-986 · 05-21-2022, 10:32 PM

Unfortunately you put a 4ohm speaker in a 2ohm system. At best it will not sound as good as OEM, at worse you will blow the amp and/or the speaker.

KevinH1990 · 05-22-2022, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stl-986

Unfortunately you put a 4ohm speaker in a 2ohm system. At best it will not sound as good as OEM, at worse you will blow the amp and/or the speaker.

You make a good point. I recognize that I am learning on the job with regard to car audio. That includes a certain degree of trial and error. In retrospect, I should have taken a more comprehensive approach to this project from the start.

I don't listen to music at extremely high volume, and my musical taste does not include music with booming bass. I hope that will help avoid a serious problem while I'm assessing the results of the first stage of this upgrade. I appreciate that hope is not a plan. If I hear or see any evidence of stress on the system, I will turn it off until I can address it.

My task for next weekend is to repair the HVAC dampers that have been spewing foam through the vents for a couple of years. That job involves removing the head unit. While I'm in there, I plan to add the wiring for an amp that will drive the door speakers off the head unit's subwoofer channel.

Perhaps someone who has approached this upgrade like I did can weigh in with information based on their experience.

Stl-986 · 05-22-2022, 11:01 AM

look on youtube for other videos on the foam repair. it can be done without cutting a big hole in the air duct.

As far as audio goes, might want to start a new thread on that one. Have 20+ years experience in this area and have done over a dozen 986/996 cars as well as 928, 924, 944 and that doesn't include all of the other cars I have done. Best advice I give people for any car is 1st determine your budget, then determine your needs/wants and then after all that figure out what you can do in that budget.

Keep in mind it is a convertible so no matter how expensive of a speaker/amp/etc you get....it's still a convertible and no amount of money is going to make it sound as good as your home system or a hard top car. Best thing anyone can ever do is just replace all the speakers, head unit & amp. You can use existing wiring which is the most labor intensive, but putting 4 ohm speakers in a 2 ohm syste is never going to last and things will absolutely blow and the sound will be worse. To make it even harder...good luck finding "good" 2 ohm speakers on the aftermarket....they just dont make them for the consumer.

clickman · 05-22-2022, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stl-986

good luck finding "good" 2 ohm speakers on the aftermarket....they just dont make them for the consumer.

Rats. That's what I was hoping to do.

I found these 2-ohm 5.25s. (Some are called "motorcycle" speakers, which apparently tend to be 2-ohm.):

Kicker 10PS5250. Coax, lowest frequency response 60Hz, sensitivity 88.3.
PowerBass OE-522. Coax, lowest frequency response 62 Hz, sensitivity 88.
And those clearly for motorcycles, like Hogtunes, Harley Davidson, etc.

Has anyone had any experience with any of these?

dghii · 05-22-2022, 04:39 PM

You will not blow up anything (amp or speakers) replacing your stock speakers with 4 ohm aftermarket speakers.

I can't remember if the Amp in a 2000 Box is a 2 ohm amp or not....I remember the Bose system was a 2 ohm set up but I doubt the stock system is.

Even if your amp is a '2 Ohm' amp, it means that the amp will be stable with 2 ohm loads. Believe it or not (although its true) you could even run 1 ohm speakers at reasonable volume levels without anything bad happening. At higher volume levels, your amp would distort (clip), sound terrible and most likely go into a protection mode.

A 4 ohm load with a two ohm amp is very easy on the amp.....Your amp will run cooler, deliver half the power but will play just as loud for all practical purpose.

Want proof? Think of all the folks on the forums that have replaced their old stock dash speakers with aftermarket Alpine, Hertz, Kicker or other brands that are 4 ohm drivers. They all work and sound much better than stock. No amps were harmed.

Also, remember this....any impedance rating you see on a speaker is a nominal rating and is not constant across the audible frequency spectrum, so a 4 ohm speaker may be a bit higher or lower while listening to music. Don't worry, the amp can handle it.

Now, for anyone going full boat and doing a component system or subs, get the right amp that will run your new system. It'll be worth it!

BRAN · 05-23-2022, 01:14 PM

I did my upgrade from a basic 2 HAES speaker setup to a 4 speakers + Sub setup.
The absolutely biggest difference made the KENWOOD KSC-SW11 active 150W Mini-Sub. It has the power and the punch that I can now effortlessly listen to music while driving with top down or at higher speeds. My 4 speaker setup alone just could not handle those conditions in a decent way.

My recommendation to everyone wanting to upgrade their sound system: Get an active Mini-Sub.