sick of ims bearing

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

Today I inspected my IMSB without removing it (2000 Boxster 5-speed, 115,500 Mi.). First, it is a dual row bearing and it looks perfect, turns smoothly and there is no looseness. I pulled the rear bearing seal and oil came out... I was surprised that it didn't smell burned and it looked relatively clean. The grease was totally gone.
At this point the plan is to change the seal on the IMS flange and put it back together. I watched the PCA videos with Jake Raby again and he explained the logic behind removing the seals to help lubricate the bearing. I feel confident with this procedure on this car at this time.

With the seal in place


With the seal removed

I'd keep that seal on it. Watch what happens when the bearing spins with no seal. All the oil is thrown out of the bearing. I'd packed it back with some lifetime lubricant before putting the seal back on.

[Oldcarguy]

...post deleted...

[elgyqc]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

I'd keep that seal on it. Watch what happens when the bearing spins with no seal. All the oil is thrown out of the bearing. I'd packed it back with some lifetime lubricant before putting the seal back on.

I saw that video and that is one point of view. Jake Raby still recommends removing the seal on the m97 (987 997) engines, which have the bearing that can't be replaced without disassembling the engine, and before his various replacement bearing kits were developed he recommended removing the seals on m96 engines. I'm no expert... but it seems to me that in throwing all that oil around the balls, races and cages are going to be coated with it. I have a bit of experience with 2 stroke engines in which the bearings are entirely lubricated by a mist of oil that enters the crankshaft diluted in the fuel. I don't want to argue the comparative reliability of 2-stroke kart engines and Porsche Boxsters but misting does work and running the IMSB without seals has a history.
As I said, I am confident with my decision... on this car at this time. When I get to my other Boxster I may decide differently.
By the way I totally destroyed the seal getting it off. I am impressed that you were able to remove and reinstall yours.

[elgyqc]

... and here we are on page 4 of a thread on "sick of ims bearing"!!!!!

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

I saw that video and that is one point of view. Jake Raby still recommends removing the seal on the m97 (987 997) engines, which have the bearing that can't be replaced without disassembling the engine, and before his various replacement bearing kits were developed he recommended removing the seals on m96 engines. I'm no expert... but it seems to me that in throwing all that oil around the balls, races and cages are going to be coated with it. I have a bit of experience with 2 stroke engines in which the bearings are entirely lubricated by a mist of oil that enters the crankshaft diluted in the fuel. I don't want to argue the comparative reliability of 2-stroke kart engines and Porsche Boxsters but misting does work and running the IMSB without seals has a history.
As I said, I am confident with my decision... on this car at this time. When I get to my other Boxster I may decide differently.
By the way I totally destroyed the seal getting it off. I am impressed that you were able to remove and reinstall yours.

Oh I never took the seal off my bearing. I'm not even worrying about it anymore with 127k miles on the engine. I got a price check on having the "Solution" done to my car and was quoted a little over $4,000 as the Tiptronic transmission adds more labor to the job. Forget that, I'll let this engine die one day and pick up a low mileage engine for about the same price and get either Pedro's DOF or Flat 6 Innovation's Solution done to the engine while it's out.

[Jager]

Sick of IMS Bearing? Do you want to know who is sick of IMS Bearing? I AM SICK OF IMS BEARING. After replacing the IMS Bearing two times in my first Boxster, and getting over 304,000 miles out of it, I purchased a 997 4S with the larger (never fail) IMS Bearing. Guess what happened? THE IMS BEARING FAILED IN MY 997! My 997 has been at Flat 6 Innovations since July. Jake said he had never seen an IMS Bearing go out on a 997 street car. As you all know the repair/rebuild is not cheap. So let me tell you again who is sick of IMS Bearing. I AM SICK OF IMS BEARING!!

[jmitro]

that sucks. best wishes

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by Jager

Sick of IMS Bearing? Do you want to know who is sick of IMS Bearing? I AM SICK OF IMS BEARING. After replacing the IMS Bearing two times in my first Boxster, and getting over 304,000 miles out of it, I purchased a 997 4S with the larger (never fail) IMS Bearing. Guess what happened? THE IMS BEARING FAILED IN MY 997! My 997 has been at Flat 6 Innovations since July. Jake said he had never seen an IMS Bearing go out on a 997 street car. As you all know the repair/rebuild is not cheap. So let me tell you again who is sick of IMS Bearing. I AM SICK OF IMS BEARING!!

Sorry for your loss. Would you share how many miles you had in the 997 engine when it went south? Was it the original grease-filled version or the seal had been removed? Cheers

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

I'd keep that seal on it. Watch what happens when the bearing spins with no seal. All the oil is thrown out of the bearing. I'd packed it back with some lifetime lubricant before putting the seal back on.

There are two problems with these experiments:

1) The bearing is more submerged in oil unless you keep your oil level below the minimum.

2) He spins a whole bearing in oil demonstrating that oil gets thrown out completely due to centrifugal force. In fact, the center stud and the inner race of the bearing is immobile and constantly supplied by oil leaking into the gap between the bearing and the flange inside the bore in the crankcase, as shown on the picture. It`s hard to imagine such circumstances when oil can`t get there when the oil level is at least half way up to the top of the shaft.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

There are two problems with these experiments:

1) The bearing is more submerged in oil unless you keep your oil level below the minimum.

2) He spins a whole bearing in oil demonstrating that oil gets thrown out completely due to centrifugal force. In fact, the center stud and the inner race of the bearing is immobile and constantly supplied by oil leaking into the gap between the bearing and the flange inside the bore in the crankcase, as shown on the picture. It`s hard to imagine such circumstances when oil can`t get there when the oil level is at least half way up to the top of the shaft.

Pedro has been working on Boxsters for a long time and where he says the oil is sitting at is probably correct.

Pedro started the injecting oil into the bearing deal with his "DOF" kit and Flat 6 Innovations changed over to injecting oil into the bearing with their "Solution" kit.

So with Flat 6 Innovation changing over to injecting oil into the bearing, I believe Pedro has merit to his claim.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Pedro has been working on Boxsters for a long time and where he says the oil is sitting at is probably correct.

Pedro started the injecting oil into the bearing deal with his "DOF" kit and Flat 6 Innovations changed over to injecting oil into the bearing with their "Solution" kit.

So with Flat 6 Innovation changing over to injecting oil into the bearing, I believe Pedro has merit to his claim.

Sorry, but it was the other way around; Jake Raby got the patent both for the solid bearing and the oil feed, which is why Pedro could never lay claim to it or patent it (which the original developer - Tuner Motorsports - tried, but was denied. Pedro is only licensee of this product, not the developer).

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Sorry, but it was the other way around; Jake Raby got the patent both for the solid bearing and the oil feed, which is why Pedro could never lay claim to it or patent it (which the original developer tried, but was denied. Pedro is only licensee of this product, not the developer).

BS, Pedro came out with the "DOF" long before Flat 6 Innovations came out with the "Solution" and the "DOF" is patented.

https://youtu.be/hzUq2DFpeKw?t=830

[The Radium King]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Sorry, but it was the other way around; Jake Raby got the patent both for the solid bearing and the oil feed, which is why Pedro could never lay claim to it or patent it (which the original developer - Tuner Motorsports - tried, but was denied. Pedro is only licensee of this product, not the developer).

i don't even think it was TuneRS that developed it, was it? I recall reading the big long thread on ... pelican? ... where it was just some guy working on it, developing testing jigs, etc. i'd thought that TuneRS might have bought the idea from him?

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

i don't even think it was TuneRS that developed it, was it? I recall reading the big long thread on ... pelican? ... where it was just some guy working on it, developing testing jigs, etc. i'd thought that TuneRS might have bought the idea from him?

Pedro tells us exactly how it was developed, but he did not mention the name of the company he worked with. However, TuneRS is located in Florida.

https://youtu.be/hzUq2DFpeKw?t=804

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Some of you guys are crack ups lol.

I really like the painted silver center console and trim around the radio and climate control or your car. Did it come from the factory like that? I've been thinking about painting mine.

LOL, the whole IMS discussion seems to go through cycles with all the old arguments rising up every few months. It seems to be the only thing that concerns new buyers.

As for my car, everything in the interior is a factory option. The only interior change is I swapped out the CD shelf with an open bin. The previous owner put in a Dension iPod interface that works really well. The only cosmetic changes I made on the car are the side markers to Euro style and I painted the rear bumper warts to match the body which wasn't an option until 2004.

Painting the control surround and/or the centre console would not be too difficult I would think.

Here is my COA with options etc. It was a US car brought to Canada up from Texas in 2008 or 2009 when our Canadian dollar was strong. Couldn't afford to do it now.

[KRAM36]

Nice! Almost $64,000 in 2003, how did Porsche sell these at that price? Mine stickered at just over $61,000.

There is a video on youtube of how to paint the console. It doesn't look hard to do.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

BS, Pedro came out with the "DOF" long before Flat 6 Innovations came out with the "Solution" and the "DOF" is patented.

https://youtu.be/hzUq2DFpeKw?t=830

Sorry, but again you have it backwards: Jake filed his first patent application several months before the Tuner RS DOF came out, otherwise he would not have been granted the multiple patents he won for the IMS Solution, and Tuner would have had a case for their patent application, which was denied.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Pedro tells us exactly how it was developed, but he did not mention the name of the company he worked with. However, TuneRS is located in Florida.

https://youtu.be/hzUq2DFpeKw?t=804

You can read all about Tuner's DOF development here IMS Bearing Direct Oil Feed (DOF)® | Lubricate & Cool your IMS Bearing – TuneRS Motorsports

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Pedro has been working on Boxsters for a long time and where he says the oil is sitting at is probably correct.

Pedro started the injecting oil into the bearing deal with his "DOF" kit and Flat 6 Innovations changed over to injecting oil into the bearing with their "Solution" kit.

So with Flat 6 Innovation changing over to injecting oil into the bearing, I believe Pedro has merit to his claim.

Regardless of how long he`s been working on Porsches the oil level sits at a much higher level even if the the oil level is at the minimum sign of the dipstick. You can find info about it on my show&tell thread if interested. Everyone who makes a bunch of money on these kits has an interest in telling you DOF is critical and your engine will fall apart if you don`t have it installed.

Actually, apparently now if you have an IMS kit to sell you have to add DOF to it, otherwise it won`t sell, regardless of being necessary or not. I just looked at the EPS website about the roller bearing and it`s kind of funny that they also add DOF in their kit even though they think it`s unnecessary

[SC-986]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Oil feed cools and prolongs the life of the plain bearings, but the splash oil mist seems to do a pretty good job in the short term.

JFP covered this on page 2 of this thread. The premise behind DOF whether with Jake’s “Solution” or TuneRS/Pedro’s system is bearing cooling and more precise oiling of the bearings.