IMS - First Time Buyer Question

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by AlanR

Thanks again for reply. When I was told they checked it I presumed they could physically see it and check it for play when they were replacing clutch.
Would this not be the case?

No. You can't see it unless it's removed.
You have more reading to do.

[10/10ths]

....and in my time, no repair ever came in on budget.

I always add a bit to the figure.

YMMV.

[maytag]

The demise of the IMS has been greatly exaggerated.

This is just my opinion, of course, but because I'm a DIY-er, I do a lot of reading, and I research everything I read. Sure, there are lots of "experts" who'll tell you one thing or another (for instance; this week we've heard on this very forum, from someone who has an "expert Porsche Technician" who says you can't track a Boxster without losing the motor. This is demonstrably false) These "Experts" come with varying degrees of experience and qualifications, and you need to remember that, when assigning a value to their opinions. You also need to understand the agendas which sometimes lie behind their statements. DO NOT DISCOUNT THE AGENDA of pride; Those who have spent a LOT of money for an IMS Solution to gain "peace of mind" are sometimes (not always) threatened by those who think that might be a little overboard, or even foolish, on a car that isn't worth $10k in resale.

I replaced my IMS bearing when I did the clutch. I honestly wish I hadn't. with 147k miles on mine, it was still PERFECT. But as another member commented: once removed, it's junk. But I took out a KNOWN-TO-BE-GOOD bearing and replaced with a giant question-mark. (Yes, there are some instances where the replaced IMS, and even the "solution" have failed)

MY daughter bought an '08 Subaru Legacy last year, with 80k miles. After 9 months of driving, she lost a head-gasket and overheated. The damage was catastrophic to the motor: chunked a cylinder. She put a USED motor in it, to the tune of $6k. Yup: a USED motor couldn't be had for less than $3500. Turns-out this is incredibly common on the NJ25 motor. My point? ALL USED CARS HAVE A CERTAIN RISK OF FAILURE. And most used cars have COMMON failures.

Ultimately, you need to decide what the car is for? IS this for FUN? Then forget about the IMS and go have fun. Elsewhere on this forum is the GREAT advice: Drive More, Worry Less".
Is this car for INVESTMENT? then you picked the wrong car. HARD Pass on it. The Boxster is not an investment car.
If the car has some sort of sentimental value to you, or represents a "bucket-list", or whatever, and you plan to keep it forever, and pass-on to posterity, then YES, do the IMSB. This is the only instance in which I think it makes sense.

Again: just my opinion, based on my own experience and all the reading / investigation / research that I've done.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by maytag

(Yes, there are some instances where the replaced IMS, and even the "solution" have failed)

I have never heard of a confirmed IMS Solution failing...…………….

[AlanR]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I have never heard of a confirmed IMS Solution failing...…………….

I came across a few comments of replaced ones failing and this video also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_IeP_iShxA

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by AlanR

I came across a few comments of replaced ones failing and this video also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_IeP_iShxA

None of the bearings either shown or discussed were the IMS Solution. The one if the video was one of the roller bearing replacements that some people think are so great. The video does however show why replacing a failed or failing IMS bearing in an engine full of metal is a bad idea.

[jmitro]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I have never heard of a confirmed IMS Solution failing...…………….

I'm sure LN would agree with you...

in my opinion it's a cost/benefit analysis.
what's the cost/benefit of having it replaced? it may certainly be worth your money to have the work done again.

OTOH, some will say a high mileage car is less likely to fail than a low mile car.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jmitro

OTOH, some will say a high mileage car is less likely to fail than a low mile car.

There have been multiple high mileage IMS failures, mileage is not an exemption from the risk. We had a customer lose his factory IMS at over 150K miles.

Personally, I really don't care what LN says, I care what my customer's performance history tells me.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

I have never heard of a confirmed IMS Solution failing...…………….

"confirmed" being the qualifier, I absolutely agree. There are the occasional, anecdotal "stories", but they are just that. I weight them as such. They are just as likely driven by their own agendas; whatever they may be.

But hey, if somebody said it once on the internet, then it's true, right? :-)

I've owned a lot of used cars in my lifetime, and I've never had one that wasn't prone to some sort of common-failure. Some types of failure are worse than others. Some with greater frequency than others.

If you want a used car with the lowest likelihood of common catastrophic failure, look at a Mercedes. Your dollar goes much further there than with any other mfr, in my experience.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by maytag

"confirmed" being the qualifier, I absolutely agree. There are the occasional, anecdotal "stories", but they are just that. I weight them as such. They are just as likely driven by their own agendas; whatever they may be.

But hey, if somebody said it once on the internet, then it's true, right? :-)

I've owned a lot of used cars in my lifetime, and I've never had one that wasn't prone to some sort of common-failure. Some types of failure are worse than others. Some with greater frequency than others.

If you want a used car with the lowest likelihood of common catastrophic failure, look at a Mercedes. Your dollar goes much further there than with any other mfr, in my experience.

We have seen IMS Solution equipped engines that spun bearings, and one that even broke the crank, and the Solution survived every time. A couple of them even reused the IMS Solution in their new engines, something that no other retrofit can do.

[AlanR]

Originally Posted by maytag

The demise of the IMS has been greatly exaggerated.

This is just my opinion, of course, but because I'm a DIY-er, I do a lot of reading, and I research everything I read. Sure, there are lots of "experts" who'll tell you one thing or another (for instance; this week we've heard on this very forum, from someone who has an "expert Porsche Technician" who says you can't track a Boxster without losing the motor. This is demonstrably false) These "Experts" come with varying degrees of experience and qualifications, and you need to remember that, when assigning a value to their opinions. You also need to understand the agendas which sometimes lie behind their statements. DO NOT DISCOUNT THE AGENDA of pride; Those who have spent a LOT of money for an IMS Solution to gain "peace of mind" are sometimes (not always) threatened by those who think that might be a little overboard, or even foolish, on a car that isn't worth $10k in resale.

I replaced my IMS bearing when I did the clutch. I honestly wish I hadn't. with 147k miles on mine, it was still PERFECT. But as another member commented: once removed, it's junk. But I took out a KNOWN-TO-BE-GOOD bearing and replaced with a giant question-mark. (Yes, there are some instances where the replaced IMS, and even the "solution" have failed)

MY daughter bought an '08 Subaru Legacy last year, with 80k miles. After 9 months of driving, she lost a head-gasket and overheated. The damage was catastrophic to the motor: chunked a cylinder. She put a USED motor in it, to the tune of $6k. Yup: a USED motor couldn't be had for less than $3500. Turns-out this is incredibly common on the NJ25 motor. My point? ALL USED CARS HAVE A CERTAIN RISK OF FAILURE. And most used cars have COMMON failures.

Ultimately, you need to decide what the car is for? IS this for FUN? Then forget about the IMS and go have fun. Elsewhere on this forum is the GREAT advice: Drive More, Worry Less".
Is this car for INVESTMENT? then you picked the wrong car. HARD Pass on it. The Boxster is not an investment car.
If the car has some sort of sentimental value to you, or represents a "bucket-list", or whatever, and you plan to keep it forever, and pass-on to posterity, then YES, do the IMSB. This is the only instance in which I think it makes sense.

Again: just my opinion, based on my own experience and all the reading / investigation / research that I've done.

Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Kinda thinking along the same lines as well, but I don't want to be foolish either.
Way I look at it is if the failure rate is around 10% - that means that I have a 90% chance of everything being OK :-) I'll take those odds.
Been doing a lot of research on this and I have come across a few comforting points of view that express much the same as you - And with what I am paying for the car I am finding it hard to justify going and spending almost a 1/4 of what its costing me to buy it just to do this one upgrade, that might not even be needed.
Its not my daily runner, so if it went south I wouldn't suffer any down time. And then I could just try and source a second hand engine or donor car, which would cost more but I'd have a fair chunk of change to put towards it from what I saved by not getting the upgrade done.

Having read a lot of forums and posts at this point one thing starts to come across strong - I don't remember one post where anyone that had it changed said that it actually needed changing - in fact many make the point that the original was "Pristine" - but now they had peace of mind.
And there also a few youtube vids of guys that had them replaced and they still failed as they weren't fitted right or whatever. So you take a risk either way! And as I'm in Ireland I'd doubt many mechanics here have much experience doing this type of upgrade, the roads aren't flooded with Porsche's due to astronomical road tax for big engines, so I'd be nervous that it's been done right.
I'm also not sure if any of the solutions offer a lifetime guarantee for their upgrade.

I liked this guys comments I read somewhere else:
"So far, of everyone posting in this thread that has done the replacement (of whatever version) all have said their bearings were “pristine”. Mileage doesn’t seem to matter. I’ll do mine when I do my clutch. Currently, everything is fine and it is hard to justify spending the $$$ up front when to do the whole thing right should be IMS, Clutch, Flywheel, RMS. Otherwise it is almost pointless to take the trans out to just do one, or a lessor combo at the end of the day. I’m not big on replacing parts that don’t need it. I suppose I’m playing the odds, but they are stacked WAY in my favor. If my engine goes boom, then it gives me an excuse to do a 3.6! :-) "

I think I'll go with that. Drive it on, don't worry about, if it happens it happens - any car can have any problem at anytime. I'll keep an eye on oil filter when its being changed and whenever the clutch needs doing I'd consider one of the upgrade options at that point.


For anyone else interested - this guy seems to do a decent explanation of why they fail, although he is promoting one of the fix options at the end of the vid. But even he admitted that when he removed his to do the upgrade, his was pristine also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUq2DFpeKw

[Homeoboxter]

I replaced my IMS bearing when I did the clutch. I honestly wish I hadn't. with 147k miles on mine, it was still PERFECT. But as another member commented: once removed, it's junk. But I took out a KNOWN-TO-BE-GOOD bearing and replaced with a giant question-mark. (Yes, there are some instances where the replaced IMS, and even the "solution" have failed)

What did you replace it for? Just curios..

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

What did you replace it for? Just curios..

I succumbed to the paranoia. haha.
Seriously: I'm sitting there looking at the IMS bearing and the Rear Main Seal. I had ordered parts for both, because everything says "do them while you're in there", which of course makes sense, right?
So I'm sitting there looking at them. No reason to suspect either have any problems whatsoever.... but BOTH are destroyed by pulling to inspect. So I did it.... and now I worry about it sometimes while I'm out driving. I worry more now than I did BEFORE I replaced it, without a doubt.



Whatev'..... sometimes I drink the cool-aid too.

[AlanR]

I wonder why the IMS Guardian never took off? That would seem like a decent middle ground. Give you some peace of mind but without having to do any immediate expensive upgrade. Can't find one for sale anywhere.

[78F350]

Originally Posted by AlanR

I wonder why the IMS Guardian never took off? That would seem like a decent middle ground. Give you some peace of mind but without having to do any immediate expensive upgrade. Can't find one for sale anywhere.

There were some issues with the durability of the IMS Guardian, but I think that the main reason that it didn't take off is that by the time it triggers, the engine will need to be torn down for a rebuild anyway. It is too late to just replace the bearing.

Info is scattered across many threads, but here's some discussion: Does the IMS Guardian work?

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by AlanR

I wonder why the IMS Guardian never took off? That would seem like a decent middle ground. Give you some peace of mind but without having to do any immediate expensive upgrade. Can't find one for sale anywhere.

I posted this in another thread a couple of weeks ago.

"Just to throw a wrench into the mix, I owned 2 LN IMS Guardians. Not only did both leak (yes they were torqued to 19 ft/lbs per instructions) but both failed where the electrical wires enter the Guardian. Without proper stress relief they simply worked their way into fraying and becoming useless. I thought the first fail was a freak thing and ordered a replacement but it too leaked and failed in the exact same way. Neither lasted a full driving season.These units are a great idea but poor execution doomed them. So I'm 2 for 2 with LN drain plugs/Guardians. So far my LN IMS bearing is fine, I hope, after putting ~15,000 miles on it."

BTW, my wife and I spent 3 weeks in your beautiful country last May. We loved it. You should have great miles and smiles in your Boxster on those amazing back roads!

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by maytag

I succumbed to the paranoia. haha.
Seriously: I'm sitting there looking at the IMS bearing and the Rear Main Seal. I had ordered parts for both, because everything says "do them while you're in there", which of course makes sense, right?
So I'm sitting there looking at them. No reason to suspect either have any problems whatsoever.... but BOTH are destroyed by pulling to inspect. So I did it.... and now I worry about it sometimes while I'm out driving. I worry more now than I did BEFORE I replaced it, without a doubt.



Whatev'..... sometimes I drink the cool-aid too.

Haha, it`s crazy, right? The more you read this stuff the more anxious you get for no reason.. Sorry, sometimes I forget to speak English: the question I wanted to ask was what you replaced the old bearing with?

[thom4782]

Here's the deal...you're never going to be 'safe.' 986 engines will eventually wear out. Replacing the IMS bearing is one way to avoid a premature, catastrophic engine failure

The math is simple. Either pay to replace the IMSB as a preventative measure to avoid one failure mode or pay $3000+ (DIY) to $6000+ (shop swaps engine) to recover from a catastrophic engine failure.

Bottom line is this. One day you'll pay for a major engine rebuild, an engine replacement, or preventative repairs. It just a matter of which and when that should drive your planning.

[BoxMann]

Originally Posted by thom4782

The math is simple. Either pay to replace the IMSB as a preventative measure to avoid one failure mode or pay $3000+ (DIY) to $6000+ (shop swaps engine) to recover from a catastrophic engine failure.

Is the $6,000 "shop swap" a used engine or a fresh rebuild with an upgraded IMSB?

[thstone]

Originally Posted by BoxMann

Is the $6,000 "shop swap" a used engine or a fresh rebuild with an upgraded IMSB?

$6K would be a used engine with a shop doing the engine swap. A 2.5L used engine swap by a shop can be done for $4,500 (had this done last year for the 5th time).

A professionally rebuilt S engine is $8K-$10K for the engine alone.