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Old 02-16-2019, 03:28 PM   #1
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What would prevent SAI READY w/no codes?

I am taking a break form banging my head against the garage wall to type this out.

SAI not going READY after engine install. All other systems READY. No CEL ever and no codes on durametric other than p1325 and p1341. These are variocam related and I THINK unrelated to the SAI.
Car runs great. Drive cycled countless times. The SAI pump comes on when cold started for @50 seconds and then shuts off.
I did have a p0491 and p0492 w/no CEL that went away after I replaced the vacuum reservoir some 400+ miles ago.

What is the SAI READY looking for that makes it ready? Some emission reading at the O2 sensors in the Cats?
If the changeover valve were not functioning and therefore not allowing the air from the pump to pass through to its destinations (the cats?), would that throw a code?
Is it just wanting a signal from the pump that shows it is turning on at cold start and off after it cycles?

If I had an idea of what it wants then I would have a direction to go, but with no CEL and no related codes and car running great...I am at a loss....
I have searched this forum and others....Lots regarding code related fixes, but not for my situation.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated.....if I am conscious to read them since I will now return to the head banging....

Bang....bang...bang...

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Old 02-16-2019, 04:05 PM   #2
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You only mention the SAI pump running after cold start. The SAI pump runs twice after cold start. It runs as you noted AND it runs again at first idle period, which could be at first stop light, it will run for ~5 seconds. The second run is a system check. It is looking for a lean response from the 02 sensors. So if your changeover valve is not opening it will fail.

Also, about codes. OBDII codes are emission (pollution) related such as Fuel injectors,misfire, cats etc. while the SAI brings cats to temp quicker to reduce pollution at startup , it is not an emission device per se, and does not set a code.

Last edited by 911monty; 02-16-2019 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:57 PM   #3
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P0410 Secondary Air Injection System, Bank 1 Below Limit
P1411 Secondary Air Injection System, Bank 2 Below Limit

Those are the codes you'll get if the SAI cycle or test fails.

If you don't have these codes, it's just a matter of drive cycles to set the readiness monitors.
There's a drive cycle procedure posted that doesn't involve actual driving, but might take some searching to find.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:57 PM   #4
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Hmmmmm....a glimmer of hope!

I was not aware of the second running of the SAI pump. This will be hard to hear so I think hooking a light to relay #10/pin 87 should show if it is indeed coming on for round two?

Also, a bad Change Over valve (#3) or bad Cutoff valve (#2) will not throw a code because I am not loosing vacuum? The valve is just not opening to operate within the SAI system?

I should be able to figure out ways to test both valves...as soon as the swelling of my head resides...

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Old 02-16-2019, 05:00 PM   #5
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Thanks PW...
I have the done both the drive cycle and the 2800rpm for 2 min from cold start many times as well...
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911monty View Post
You only mention the SAI pump running after cold start. The SAI pump runs twice after cold start. It runs as you noted AND it runs again at first idle period, which could be at first stop light, it will run for ~5 seconds. The second run is a system check. It is looking for a lean response from the 02 sensors. So if your changeover valve is not opening it will fail.

Also, about codes. OBDII codes are emission (pollution) related such as Fuel injectors,misfire, cats etc. while the SAI brings cats to temp quicker to reduce pollution at startup , it is not an emission device per se, and does not set a code.
Woke up early this morning. Made some coffee, grabbed my PC, stop watch/phone and headed out the door trying to take advantage of light traffic on a sunday morning.
I followed the prescription for the drive cycle as close as possible and hit it as close to perfect as I could have. Hit all the signals green, made my right turn to get on the hwy from the left turn lane...across three lanes so as to flatten out the apex so I could maintain 40mph speed. Never went over 29mph for the first phase, never went over 59mph for the second phase...idled in drive for 5 min at the end of the cycle....

Still in FAIL for SAI
I listened for the second operation of the SAI pump during the 5 minute idle and never heard the pump come on. Perhaps 911monty is on to something?

I can not activate the SAI pump with the Durametric while the engine is running (assume thats normal?)....but can with engine off.
I can activate the Electrical Switchover Valve for the SAI pump with the durametric with engine off. The first activation lets out a 'groan' (valve opening thanks to stored vacuum?) and then some faint clicks that become quieter and eventually inaudible after a few seconds (assuming it is due to the lack of vacuum from a running engine).
Activating the valve while the SAI pump is running for its test results in the SAI pump turning off. Not sure if thats normal.
Finally, the relay for the SAI pump clicks when the pump is activated...but not just one click on, one click off...instead it is rapid fire clicks while the SAI pump is running. Not sure if that is normal.
Maybe some thoughts on this latest round will yield some direction to head next...thanks in advance...
I am at 1200 miles since my install with SAI still in FAIL.
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Last edited by Ottomotion; 02-17-2019 at 07:50 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:14 PM   #7
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Spoke to a mechanic/tech today...friend...and he seems to think the pending p1325 and p1341 codes are keeping the SAI from going ready. Even though these codes are variocam related, he thinks the OBD2 system doesn't like any codes to be present if its going to go to all 5 systems 'READY'.

So, Looks like I at least have that to work on.

Durametric readings for 'Actual Cam Angles for bank 1 & 2' are within 1* of each other. However, 'Spec. Cam Angle' for bank 1 shows the deviation within 1* of each other, but as soon as load/throttle is applied, bank 1 swings 20-30* out and then settles back into the good range.

Questions I do not know answers to: 1) what is Spec. Angle and why does it differ from Actual Angle? 2) what would cause this problem? I plan on changing the oil because I am told debris is common cause (even though a fresh change was done when motor was installed 1200 mi ago), and then I will look at the variocam solenoid.
Hoping its not the cam sprocket because I really dont want to go through dropping the motor again....
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:32 PM   #8
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....and I am ready to trade my 3 chain motor in for a 5 chain....there is soooo much more info out there on 5 chains.....

On the other hand, testing the solenoid will be easier since it can be removed without having to pull the cam cover.

I will do so and then proceed with a bench test and cleaning like this done on a 996.

https://youtu.be/wb8S9ng0vdY

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Last edited by Ottomotion; 02-18-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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