Gauging Interest: Turbo Kit

[RacebyDesign]

Lol, goodness.

When I first started this it was to generate some chat and see if there was a demand for it. I wanted to know if people with Boxsters were like most other Porsche owners...aka: they like turbocharger units.

I had no intent to become a turbo-Boxster sales mogul and one day name a city after me. I just think they are fun cars with a strong community of motorsport enthusiasts, not just guys with gold chains who rev at stop lights.

I have said before, until the weekend (like the 25th) or shortly after any concept of pricing is EXTREMELY vague. I have to talk to my other business partners, the shop doing the building, etc.

In all honesty this venture is simply to help break into the world performance parts and bring something to the table we can be known for. I am looking to make small batches and see a few owners with mild levels of boost with big grins on their faces. Lets think more in batches and less in the realm of Ford Motor Company popping out F-150's by the crate.

If there is a demand and it can be done successfully (high quality, good results, decent price), we would like to introduce an intercooled kit to produce a max of 6psi with a liquid intercooler. ANY production engine that doesnt have pistons made of particle board can stand a conservatively tuned 5 or 6psi not intercooled. With an efficient intercooler this is very safe because your dropping the charge temperature and consequentially losing 1-2 psi through the intercooler. So only 4psi makes it to your throttle body and its colder than a Corona sitting in a bucket full of ice.

http://www.hassturbo.com/catalog/toyota.html

Bear in mind that a 1zz-fe is a cast piston Corolla engine that is notoriously weak. Stock motors can take a little boost, look at the Mazdaspeed Protege.

Anyways, long story that should have been very short. I am not looking to make alot of money on this particular project, nor put together some cheesy welded shop class nightmare.

For the record: I dont want to trick you, I dont want to get rich, I dont want to blow any engines up, and I definitely dont want free advertising.

Until I have some good hard facts I appreciate the feedback but please treat this like any other thread. Talk about it, think about it, laugh about it, etc.

Wait until our emblem appears on the side and we have a part number before you do anything.

Cheers,

Blake Erven
Race By Design
www.myspace.com/racebydesign

PS: Because are selling other parts and redesigning our website (it is very rudimentary), I am contacting the moderator of this forum to join as a sponsor.

It has been my intent the entire time to find Boxster forum to join (and pay) for this reason. The only reason I didnt earlier is because we haven't even started selling to the public yet.

I will make an introduction thread when this happens.

[ohioboxster]

Oh no mister, theres going to be a city named after you wether you like it or not. I wish you luck.

[RacebyDesign]

Woohoo! Thanks

[g_arrington]

I would be interested on the following conditions:

1) Priced affordably - While there are a good number of members who have purchased new 987s, you are looking at a kit for the 986 models if I understand correctly. Although this is a generalization, the folks who own the 986 do so because they don't have the limitless resources to purchase a new 987 which has a significant hp increase. Therefore, I would be interested only if the kit was relatively cheap.

2) Easy to install - I wouldn't dare attempt to change the oil on my 986, let alone install a turbo kit...but others would. However, even for those of us who wouldn't install it ourselves, it would be cheaper and easier to find a mechanic who could install a more simple kit.

As far as destroying engines....I am not concerned....I never buy the first thing that comes out and will wait to see what happens to everyone elses cars first

Just my thoughts,

Doug

[JP-s-in st. louis]

Build it and feel free to ask about interest on this board...I DO NOT agree with JIM...keep up the work and if you build it they wll come!

[David_J]

I joined this forum to gain knowledge about my car. I was the first to respond to this thread because I was interested in the turbo kit. In no way did I see this post as a sales post. How are companies suppose to talk to their potential customers to see what they want if they can't make post such as this. Blake has said many times that if and when a product is available, that he would have no problem becoming a sponsor to promote his item.

Would I spend $10k on a kit? Probably. Could I have just purchased a car with more power from the start like a 911 Turbo? Sure I could have. But I bought the Boxster based on my preference. People ask me how could I spend $5k on a suspension upgrade on my car, I say, how could I not. I didn't by the car to be driving around a stock car. I bought it to make it my own. Suspension upgrades, turbo/SC, etc. They make the car unique and make it my own. Some people like to keep it stock. Great, that is their preference as well.

Blake, keep up the good work. I would definitely be interested in your product.

Thanks,
David

[JP-s-in st. louis]

Sorry to thread jack..But I am here in Seattle also..Dave I think I even saw your car at Max RPM on a drive a bit ago...My 2000 S is done and will ship tomorrow morning.

[Perfectlap]

I nearly turbo charged my Miata before I decided to just get 250 HP by buying a BoxsterS. Recovering the money to go with FI on a Miata would have meant probably owning the Miata forever or selling at a big ole' loss. and the other thing was that I honestly never fel that my Miata really needed more than the 150 HP. it accelerated to 60 mph in what a mere second or two slower than my BoxsterS? And as far as handling well a lowered Miata on sticky tires really lessened the urgency for FI.

Now many of the same things apply to the Boxster. It handles superbly without the extra ponies of FI. and the big BUT againgst FI:
The Boxster engine is expensive to repair in the even of engine failure due to FI. No one wants to deal with that no matter how much more power you'll get. Fixing a blown Mazda or Toyota engine is one thing but the cost of specialized labor to fix a Porsche engine is a deal breaker for most.

I know allot of guys who have owned many Porsches and (everal at one time)and they absolutely will not touch even a FACTORY Turbo'd Porsche engine. You simply can't talk them into it.

[RacebyDesign]

Lets all remember engine displacement.

The MR2 and Miata have a few good things going for them, however, engine size isnt one of them. I am a firm believer in engine displacement being a good thing, especially when you have a nicely designed set of 4 valve heads to go with it.

A 1.6/1.8 miata will dyno 98-115 horsepower at the wheels depending on year. The MR2 spyder's 1.8 puts out 125 at the wheels on a good day stock. I wont compare the other MR2's just for sake of simplicity. For these engines to put out real power (to compete with the big dogs), you have to push 7-12 psi. The Miata with a BRP air-to-air intercooler and approx 9 psi pushes about 225 whp, the MR2 needs a bit less due to higher compression but is also more fragile.

If a 2.5 boxster puts out 150 at the wheels (just pulling this figure out of the air), you would need a 50% increase to match them in power alone. This could be done with about 4 or 5 psi and a liquid-to-air intercooler and a very small turbo which would have almost no boost lag. Due to its un-boosted size, even a 2.5 Boxster would have tons more torque so the difference in weight would be insignificant. Add in the fact that most of you are running rubber that you couldnt fit in a Miata's driver seat.

So yes, in a word I wouldnt push 10 psi with a rough tune at a Boxster. It's too much liability unless your sponsored and get free motors in the mail. However, at 4 psi I believe it would actually live much longer than being strung out at redline to eek all the power out of it. Start playing with hot cams, computer tuning, and increased redlines and the wear really beings. The real factor is keeping oil clean, pressurized, and cool but you have to do this with even a NA engine.

Our Project Focus SVT with 5 psi of boost on a MP62 blower (no intercooler and 10.2:1 compression) puts out more power and torque at 5,500 rpm than at 7,200 stock. The strange thing that even at 3,000 rpm it has more spunk than it ever did, so we tend to beat on it less just driving around.

I work at a service department so I know what you mean about servicing things that are "tweaked" and most people shy away. Warranty work is always tricky so I dont believe in trying to cheat the system. However, I think that people with chopped up wiring from poor stereo/alarm installs are just as bad. The only difference is that aftermarket superchargers/turbo's burn up O2 sensors instead of your windows randomly working or frying an odometer cluster (not joking here /hug Car Toys trainee).

The main boon of a turbo system is holding back the urge to turn up the boost. There is no such thing as free horsepower.

Once again, great feedback. Your all true professionals.

[ohioboxster]

I agree with the above statements, not to beat a dead horse but my 4.5 psi makes my car feel like a totally different car. Yes, I want to change pulleys and take it to 6 6.5 psi but common sense tells me not a good idea. Just my random thoughts....

[RacebyDesign]

There you go, Ohioboxster is living testement to what a little boost can do (albeit, not too much).

I believe that turbochargers/superchargers get a bad rap in the tuner world for reliability because people are constantly pushing the bounderies or not tuning them appropriately (or both).

The first thing they do with a supercharged vehicle is figure out where to get a pulley the size of a coke bottle cap and overclock the blower. Turbo owners purchase an aquarium bleeder valve or M.B.C. and basically run closed wastegate until they melt something. I did it once years back, its part of growing up.

If there are companies like Comptech offering supercharger kits for the S2000 (with and w/o intercoolers) that has 11.1:1 compression and a 9k redline I think anything can take a *little* boost.

[BoxsterRS]

What's wrongwith making a turbo for a boxster??? If it where a carrera everyone would be dripping from their pants. Its the same as buying a crappy s/c but better. Its the first try from a tunning point of view, buy a gemballa kit and complain after spending more than a ferrari on the car. Wasn't there 3.8l boxster turbo kicking behinds??? It would put boxster on the spotlight and get other tuners to embrace making parts for it. Just admit that 1997-2004 Boxsters are underpowered. I really enjoy driving my car but sometimes when I want to go quick and see a crx or golf cart going faster than me than that isn't fair for the price we had to pay for our cars! Make a good turbo setup and i'msure everyone on the forum would like it. Otherwisr those members that hate the idea make your own site for conservative boxster owners where you just change wheels and tires. Not to stomp on those that do this. Just a reply fronm my palm treo while I tutor kids!!! to get some $$$ to make my car a better car. Please its just my point of view don't hate me saying what I believe.jaja

[optimus]

Originally Posted by ohioboxster

I agree with the above statements, not to beat a dead horse but my 4.5 psi makes my car feel like a totally different car. Yes, I want to change pulleys and take it to 6 6.5 psi but common sense tells me not a good idea. Just my random thoughts....

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement and that's why these forums are valuable... if Ohoiboxster has been running his engine reliably with 5psi... I want to know this as it will help me decide which way to go...

What I would also like to know is what sort real world performance is the car doing now? 0-60 in ??? engine still smooth in normal use???

and i want to know same for turbowerx or TTP...

Like Ohioboxster, I dont wnat to push the envelope... I just wnat to purchase a kit that has been well engineered. Therefore if it's 5psi and no engine mods (7K) or 10psi and lowered compression (20k) I would like options...

[der Geist]

I am gonna throw in my $.02 here as well. I come in with the majority on this thread. I enjoying reading the discussions and different points of view on putting a turbo on the Boxster. After doing my first DE last month I am convinced that the Boxster could use more power. The car chewed up the corners but by the end of every straight there was that Carrera right on my ass again. I think that depending on the cost of the kit it may be better to swap the motor or trade up to a newer S though. Of course if you don't want to invest that much and only need a small bump in HP I can see where a turbo may be the way to go. I am not an expert on turbo units by any means but from what I have read so far I would be really concerned about using a unit without an intercooler on an engine that wasn't designed for a turbo in the first place.

On a side note-one of the main reasons that I joined this forum was to find about about new products, vendors etc. I have learned an awful lot from this board in the short time I have been reading it and I hope to see more posts from new and potentially new vendors.

[RacebyDesign]

Quick brief update:

Still waiting for more tangible data: numbers, pricing, timeframe, etc.
Things we do know:

*we have officially paid for 12 months of 986forum sponsorship. We dont have a banner at the moment because our website is being totally redesigned and is currently quite embarassing.

*we are looking at production of a minimum of 25 kits for the first wave. I will be actively contacting other vendors I am in connection with to help buy-down this order.

*A second batch of kits might/might not happen depending on response.

*It will be utilizing a very trick, custom designed high flow water-to-air intercooler.

*boost will be in the 4.5-6psi range with about a .5 psi reduction from the intercooler. (this is very efficient, most air to air intercoolers sap 1.5-2psi).

*boost will be as linear as possible while still giving great top end gains.

*It will cost less than the Imagine Auto SC kit (this is not a slam on them, their product, or their company).

*This should be available for the 2.7 and 3.2 as well (yes...3.2+ boost = :troll: ).
The great thing about a turbo system will be ease of operation. While even 6 psi is very safe with this type of intercooling system (since its the only I.C. unit on the market), you can also run less psi with a flick of a switch. This makes seamless reliability possible even in enduro races.

Please spread the word to your other Boxster communities to help spread the interest. We are not at the point of taking deposits but if this kit goes into production, chances are we will do one batch of kits. This thread will be followed with extensive details when they become available to us.

As it has been mentioned in the past, there are very few forced induction Boxsters in the world. We can extend this number past 25 kits with additional interest but will probably not be putting out another batch each year (unless the feedback is surreal).

Thanks again for your terrific feedback and questions.

Blake Erven
Race By Design
www.myspace.com/racebydesign
racebydesign@yahoo.com

[mnavarro]

If you have something for 5K I would go for it. I would pay 5K to get 50-70 hp more. I have installed everything on my STI and if it's an easier install I would like to do it myself. You probably should go intercooled. You will probably need injectors. Maybe you can get around some of this cost by increasing fuel pressure and providing a different fuel pump.

[thenavarro]

Hay MNavarro,

Welcome to the board. My user name is thenavarro , maybe we are long lost relatives. Anyway just had to say hello because of your username.
Take care,

Mike Navarro

[Hortos]

After driving my sisters 98 Boxster around LA all last weekend I can happily say I now have every intention of buying an 00-04 S after I complete probation at my new job . I'm very excited about this kit because in my city theres maybe 20 turbo imports within 4 square miles of my house several of which are my friends ranging from junkyard turbo kits to 400hp SC300s. And anything to help my car stay in the mix is welcome. I've set put off installing my complete turbo kit I had put together for an 88 325iC just to save money for my boxster and if this boxster turbo kit shows the gains I'm hoping it will I'll be scrapping project Dirty E30 and selling it to buy this one.


PS. Suck is defined: Watching an Integra, a SC300, and an Impreza fly past you knowing that if they didn't have turbos you'd be making fun of them.

[RacebyDesign]

Hello All,

We are working out the details and will post another thread when we have more concise information.

We are very excited with the possibilities of this kit and would love to see what can be accomplished by a reliable dose of unnatural aspiration.

Thank you for your interest.

Blake Erven
Race By Design
www.myspace.com/racebydesign

[Frodo]

Hey Race by Design---it's been 9 months. Any updates?