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Old 10-07-2018, 06:15 AM   #1
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Inner front tire wear

I noticed both front tires are worn on the inside. I had an alignment last year 20km/12k miles ago. At that time the fronts were good and I was thinking I would have to replace the rears soon. Now they all need doing. Not a big deal but I'll obviously have to get the alignment done and ask more questions this time. The total mileage on these tires is 32km/20k miles. They are Bridgestone RE760 and the car is a daily driver and used mostly on the highway. I'm trying to find the alignment sheet but I'm wondering if they perhaps used std S specs instead of the ROW M030. Too much camber or toe in? M030 is supposed to have more negative camber? Would this explain the wear?
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:32 AM   #2
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I think you'd need excessive camber to get that wear. To me, it looks like too much toe-out.
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:37 AM   #3
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Yeah i run -3 camber in front and zero toe and my insides don't wear like that. Looks like too much toe.
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:41 AM   #4
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I think you'd need excessive camber to get that wear. To me, it looks like too much toe-out.
I'm with brantyb on this. I dont think this is about camber, it's about too much toe- out.

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Old 10-07-2018, 08:41 AM   #5
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Toe for sure
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:48 AM   #6
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Ok I'll have a discussion with the shop about this. I just wish I could find the alignment sheet they gave me. I'm wondering if it shows good numbers even though the alignment is obviously off.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:01 AM   #7
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The shop (local Porsche indy) just basically blew me off. All the guys on the counter looked like their dog just died and there was a general lack of interest. I don't get mad about these things. I'll speak with my wallet and buy the tires and alignment services elsewhere.
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:16 AM   #8
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The shop (local Porsche indy) just basically blew me off. All the guys on the counter looked like their dog just died and there was a general lack of interest. I don't get mad about these things. I'll speak with my wallet and buy the tires and alignment services elsewhere.
What's the name of the shop?
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:48 PM   #9
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I know you requested a change in alignment but most tire shops will only do an alignment to stock specs. I would think that would be even more likely there in America where the threat of law suits is a real and present danger.

Most Porsche's are sports cars and run sports suspension/alignment settings. Our Boxster has the same wear pattern and depending on the type of tire fitted you can swap them on the rims so that the wear is on the outside to gain more life from the tire.

Our Ford Falcon utility also does this (4000cc six cylinder 195kw). We have a large number of performance sedans and utes here in New Zealand/Australia with aggressive setups that are hard on tires, a lot putting out 200kw-300kw+.

Most motorcycles have rounded tires that wear out in the middle because we ride them on the road not racetracks. Expect an average of 5000km/3000miles.

This isn't to say you shouldn't be able to request a custom set up to reduce tire wear but keep it in mind that in doing so you may be putting yourself in a grey area legally.
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:01 PM   #10
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I've gotten alignments lots of times that were non-standard specs here is the good ol' USA.

The OP's wear pattern looks like it could be excessive camber for the type of driving he's doing, although it could be toe-out as well. 356Guy, does the car feel "darty", like it wants to turn with just a slight input of the steering wheel? If that's the case, it may be a toe-out issue.
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:37 PM   #11
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I know you requested a change in alignment but most tire shops will only do an alignment to stock specs. I would think that would be even more likely there in America where the threat of law suits is a real and present danger.

Most Porsche's are sports cars and run sports suspension/alignment settings. Our Boxster has the same wear pattern and depending on the type of tire fitted you can swap them on the rims so that the wear is on the outside to gain more life from the tire.

Our Ford Falcon utility also does this (4000cc six cylinder 195kw). We have a large number of performance sedans and utes here in New Zealand/Australia with aggressive setups that are hard on tires, a lot putting out 200kw-300kw+.

Most motorcycles have rounded tires that wear out in the middle because we ride them on the road not racetracks. Expect an average of 5000km/3000miles.

This isn't to say you shouldn't be able to request a custom set up to reduce tire wear but keep it in mind that in doing so you may be putting yourself in a grey area legally.
Wait... so you're suggesting that somebody aligning the Porsche to factory specs will result in premature wear of the inner edge of the tire? ok.... ? Because? And changing this somehow puts us at risk legally?

And this has WHAT to do with motorcycles?

I'm so confused right now.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:37 PM   #12
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it was supposedly a stock alignment. It handled fine.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #13
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I was just getting at the fact that what some people consider premature tire wear is perfectly normal with some vehicles standard set ups. GM Holden Australia put out a model called SS Commodore and there is a hotter version done under the HSV (Holden Special Vehicle) brand. A lot of these wore their tires out like this, and there are kits available to change the base settings to reduce the problem (if all you are doing is driving to the shops all day). These cars run a version of the Corvette V8.

Our Ford Falcon is also done in different levels of sportiness to suit. The top end models run 300+kw V8's as with the GM models. And as I said it also has this sort of tire wear as normal.

My point about motorcycle tire wear is valid as it just highlights that tire wear that the average car driver would think is a fault is normal. Motorcycle tires are very round in profile and usually fairly soft. The end result is that 90% of tire wear is in the middle of the tire and there is quite often little to no wear on the outer edge.

I'm sorry if the remark about the American legal system was over the top, but from the perspective of the average New Zealander it seems as though being taken to court for damages is a big part of the system. If a tire shop were to change the alignment and there was a crash due to loss of control, it may be that the driver might try to sue/blame that tire shop. It was only a couple of weeks ago that someone got hit by a golf ball at a golf tournament and wants to sue for damages. Just saying.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ratanui View Post
I was just getting at the fact that what some people consider premature tire wear is perfectly normal with some vehicles standard set ups. GM Holden Australia put out a model called SS Commodore and there is a hotter version done under the HSV (Holden Special Vehicle) brand. A lot of these wore their tires out like this, and there are kits available to change the base settings to reduce the problem (if all you are doing is driving to the shops all day). These cars run a version of the Corvette V8.

Our Ford Falcon is also done in different levels of sportiness to suit. The top end models run 300+kw V8's as with the GM models. And as I said it also has this sort of tire wear as normal.

My point about motorcycle tire wear is valid as it just highlights that tire wear that the average car driver would think is a fault is normal. Motorcycle tires are very round in profile and usually fairly soft. The end result is that 90% of tire wear is in the middle of the tire and there is quite often little to no wear on the outer edge.

I'm sorry if the remark about the American legal system was over the top, but from the perspective of the average New Zealander it seems as though being taken to court for damages is a big part of the system. If a tire shop were to change the alignment and there was a crash due to loss of control, it may be that the driver might try to sue/blame that tire shop. It was only a couple of weeks ago that someone got hit by a golf ball at a golf tournament and wants to sue for damages. Just saying.
That's it: I'm SUING you! How can you be so slanderous!?!?

haha.

Nah, it stings 'cuz it's true. the U.S. Legal system was borne of great minds, but has become (in practice) a farcical shadow of the original intent.

I understand what you're saying about the tire wear. But I respectfully disagree that it's a valid argument on this car.
Modern cars, especially sports cars, should not exhibit the characteristics you're describing. Someone driving "normally" with a factory-spec alignment should see a "neutral" tire-wear pattern; meaning wear is even across the tire. We're not talking about any sort of "destined-for-the-track, special-edition" car here, that may have exotic parts or setups from the factory.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:40 PM   #15
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Fair enough. New Zealand is a country of twists and turns so it may be that our standard is your sports when it comes to alignment. Not many transcontinental highways in this part of the world.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:09 PM   #16
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For curiosity sake I decided to do a crude front alignment check on my lift. Its a Japanese import and has ROW M030 suspension. I used 1 1/4" angle iron x 27" long on 4 inch blocks and a tape measure clamped to one side. The toe in seems parallel, maybe 1/16" max. I decided to put a level vertically on the tires and I measured 1/2" gap which equates to around 1.5 degrees negative camber. This explains the wear. The shop said they only recommend a stock alignment for the street so thee results are odd. I guess I have to decide if shorter tire life is worth the improved handling I am supposedly getting.
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:07 PM   #17
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Continuation now spring is here....I've got new Sumitomo's on order (good luck finding them around here....one set available in the Province)

Too much toe out might be the issue as I noticed that there is a difference in alignment specs between the NA and ROW Sport (M030?) suspensions. The ROW Sport requires more toe in and more camber. Perhaps the shop was unaware of this.
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