Debris in oil Filter - need help

[krazy-knuck]

Hi,

Just completing on oil change on my 2002 Boxster and I cut the oil filter open and found a lot of debris in it. Can someone let me know if this is the IMS bearing or something else. Car seem to run fine with no noise or leaks that I can see.

Thanks for your help.

[The Radium King]

looks green and rubbery, hey - it's your variocam actuators if so. expensive to buy, and expensive to replace (engine needs opening). actually more expensive to fix than ims. run a magnet over it to confirm - if magnetic then engine probably done (symptom of metal on metal action - ims, but worn enough to have spit metal throughout the engine - good luck getting that out).

if actuators, engine can stay in the car if you take it to a tiny indy with tiny hands. otherwise any by the book porsche shop will drop engine and charge more $. total failure is not catastrophic put will produce a check engine light, loss of variocam action and loss of power. note that there is an actuator on each bank - check your cam deviation; big deviation on one side will let you know what side to replace.

[ndfrigi]

not that i’m trying to scare you or make you more worry! but it looks like you have a concern on ur engine. Maybe start to find a good use engine and change your oil and drive it for awhile. Maybe after 1k miles or maybe less, change again your oil and check again your filter how much metal in there.

here is what my filter looks like last oil change after 6k miles since IMS change to LNE brand.

[78F350]

Originally Posted by ndfrigi

not that i’m trying to scare you or make you more worry! but it looks like you have a concern on ur engine. ...
here is what my filter looks like last oil change after 6k miles since IMS change to LNE brand.

Not that I'm trying to scare you or make you worry, ndfrigi, but you can have the bestest most beautiful IMS bearing replacement and still have the problem that krazy-knuck has.
To illustrate what TRK posted, here's where the green rubbery stuff comes from:

Originally Posted by The Radium King

Priced at about $1k each new (per side) and engine disassembly labor it makes for some hard choices.

[krazy-knuck]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

looks green and rubbery, hey - it's your variocam actuators if so. expensive to buy, and expensive to replace (engine needs opening). actually more expensive to fix than ims. run a magnet over it to confirm - if magnetic then engine probably done (symptom of metal on metal action - ims, but worn enough to have spit metal throughout the engine - good luck getting that out).

if actuators, engine can stay in the car if you take it to a tiny indy with tiny hands. otherwise any by the book porsche shop will drop engine and charge more $. total failure is not catastrophic put will produce a check engine light, loss of variocam action and loss of power. note that there is an actuator on each bank - check your cam deviation; big deviation on one side will let you know what side to replace.

OK, yes I just put a magnet on it and it doesn't pick it up and all the bits are green. What does these actuators do? Is my engine ok to still drive?

Thanks for all your help.

[The Radium King]

search here for actuators or variocam actuators and you should get all the info you need. to summarise, they are the electro-mechanical devices that push on chain tensioner pads that increase/decrease tension on chains that join the inlet and exhaust cams - rpm-based variable cam position - variocam.

the pads are a wear item. as such the car's computer monitors their state of health - cam deviation - anything over +/- 9 degrees triggers a check engine light. if your cel isn't on then then your actuators have not failed completely, as when they do go (in my case, any way) your deviation goes really high - i got -16 degrees. how to check - your mechanic if he has the proper tools can read it, or you can purchase a durametric tool and read it yourself.

it's a flat 6 engine so you have two backs of cams, actuators, etc., so will get two deviation numbers (unless your car is euro market where they only read one bank). that info should tell you what bank is failing. decision time:

replace both banks? if one is failing then the other is suspect. pretty much doubles the price, however. list price $1000 USD per bank just for the part. feeling luck enough to stuff a used one in there? it is a labour intensive job, and doing both banks almost doubles the labour (if the engine stays in the car, anyway).

live with it? when it does go you will get a cel. variocam will stop working so you will be down on power. this is an interference engine, which means that when the piston is at top dead centre, if timing is way off, then valves will hit it (fyi, ims failure causes loss of timing which results in piston/valve interference which is how ims kiills these engines; that and metal gets spewed throughout and is impossible to remove from tiny oil passages). in my experience, with a failed actuator and -16 deviation, timing wasn't off so bad so as to have interference. ie, in my experience total failure of an actuator is not catastropic (as opposed to ims failure).

while you are in there. ie, why did it fail? as already stated, the actual pads that the actuator pushes onto the chains are a wear item. my theory? they wear because they get slapped by the chains on start-up. driving around with excessively worn pads and loose chains means that the actuators are over extended for an excessive period of time and they fail. so, while you are in there, replace the tensioner pads (porsche updated the part because of this problem) the chains, the chain tensioners (porsche updated this part as well) etc. mechanic dropped the engine to do the work? then time for clutch, ims, rms, etc.

in my case, in edmonton and porsche indy, price tag to do work with engine in the car, both banks replacing all worn/updated parts was around $7k Cdn.

[krazy-knuck]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

search here for actuators or variocam actuators and you should get all the info you need. to summarise, they are the electro-mechanical devices that push on chain tensioner pads that increase/decrease tension on chains that join the inlet and exhaust cams - rpm-based variable cam position - variocam.

the pads are a wear item. as such the car's computer monitors their state of health - cam deviation - anything over +/- 9 degrees triggers a check engine light. if your cel isn't on then then your actuators have not failed completely, as when they do go (in my case, any way) your deviation goes really high - i got -16 degrees. how to check - your mechanic if he has the proper tools can read it, or you can purchase a durametric tool and read it yourself.

it's a flat 6 engine so you have two backs of cams, actuators, etc., so will get two deviation numbers (unless your car is euro market where they only read one bank). that info should tell you what bank is failing. decision time:

replace both banks? if one is failing then the other is suspect. pretty much doubles the price, however. list price $1000 USD per bank just for the part. feeling luck enough to stuff a used one in there? it is a labour intensive job, and doing both banks almost doubles the labour (if the engine stays in the car, anyway).

live with it? when it does go you will get a cel. variocam will stop working so you will be down on power. this is an interference engine, which means that when the piston is at top dead centre, if timing is way off, then valves will hit it (fyi, ims failure causes loss of timing which results in piston/valve interference which is how ims kiills these engines; that and metal gets spewed throughout and is impossible to remove from tiny oil passages). in my experience, with a failed actuator and -16 deviation, timing wasn't off so bad so as to have interference. ie, in my experience total failure of an actuator is not catastropic (as opposed to ims failure).

while you are in there. ie, why did it fail? as already stated, the actual pads that the actuator pushes onto the chains are a wear item. my theory? they wear because they get slapped by the chains on start-up. driving around with excessively worn pads and loose chains means that the actuators are over extended for an excessive period of time and they fail. so, while you are in there, replace the tensioner pads (porsche updated the part because of this problem) the chains, the chain tensioners (porsche updated this part as well) etc. mechanic dropped the engine to do the work? then time for clutch, ims, rms, etc.

in my case, in edmonton and porsche indy, price tag to do work with engine in the car, both banks replacing all worn/updated parts was around $7k Cdn.

Ok, thanks for all the info. I'm looking into a local mechanic to work on it after hours to help with costs.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by krazy-knuck

Ok, thanks for all the info. I'm looking into a local mechanic to work on it after hours to help with costs.

Krazy-knuck,

That would be great hopefully you can arrange that, BTW try no to drive the car to minimize the risk of much more expensive damage, good luck!