Help, Deamber side markers

[tony_fury]

Originally Posted by tuanle16

tony. sorry, you must have misunderstood me. i wanted to see the link on how to make your sidemarkers blink when you engage the turn signal. currently, mine does not.

My misunderstanding..

I designed a simple circuit for motorcycle two wire LED turn signals.
The same circuit would work for the side markers lights.

The circuit is nothing more than two diodes and a resistor.
Since the side marker lights are only two wires - 12V & ground this would work for what your trying to do. (side marker lights as running lights & turn signal)

You would basically feed the turn signal lead into one input (diode only lead) and the parking light lead (running light) into the other input. (diode with resistor)
The single output lead would go to the side marker light. plus the ground wire..

All the parts can be acquired from RadioShack. Simple to build, I used heat shrink tubing to enclose the components.
See drawing of the circuit below.
Your biggest challenge would be taping into the turn signal lead for each side.
You would need a total of 4 diodes and 2 resistors. RadioShack part numbers provided.
Hope this helps
T

[Homeboy981]

Hey Tony,

Thanks for the post. I have done the mod as described by another member that turns the running lights into turn signals. Great SAFETY MOD! However, I lost the "running light" or parking light functionality.

Glad to know a couple RS parts can get it back. I already chopped the wires but the lack of load using LEDs has caused some other "picadillos". I will try the Tony Mod and let you know if there are any ill effects. From looking at the diagram it is for a bike but that should not matter. The lack of load on LEDs causes our cars fits….unless you have a load on the circuit.

It has helped me avoid at least one accident. With LED lighting you can see directly on the side AND at the back of the vehicle too. I had a guy driving in my blind spot, saw the blinker and woke up! Then, I dropped a gear and dumped him!

The safety merits of this mod make it road worthy!

[tony_fury]

This circuit has been installed on several motorcycles and are still functioning to date, mine included.
I've been running it for several years.

The diodes in this design work as one way switches, the PIV (Peak Inverse Voltage) rating of 50V prevents the voltage from back feeding into each input respectively. The resistor on the parking light input simply dim's the parking/running light.

If you have the fast blinking from the LED's, instead of load resistors I would simply change your Flasher relay to one that supports LED's.
EFL-3 LED Flasher Relay. Simple and doesn't require load resistors on every connection.
I'm not a proponent of putting load resistors across power leads.

T

[cbbepop]

THIS IS awesome!

[Meir]

very nice tony.
i'm thinking about doing something similar, but using mini relays.
using the relays will not require any resistor if using LED bulbs.
on top of that, if the running lights are on, the "blinker command" will basically turn them off and on in the blinker pattern.
if the running lights are off, the "blinker command" will turn the lights on and off according to blinker pattern.
this setup is more complicated and will require running a line to the blinker fuse inside the car.

[tony_fury]

Originally Posted by Meir

very nice tony.
i'm thinking about doing something similar, but using mini relays.
using the relays will not require any resistor if using LED bulbs.
on top of that, if the running lights are on, the "blinker command" will basically turn them off and on in the blinker pattern.
if the running lights are off, the "blinker command" will turn the lights on and off according to blinker pattern.
this setup is more complicated and will require running a line to the blinker fuse inside the car.

Meir:
The circuit provided below will not require relays.
You can simply change the car's stock flasher relay with the model EFL-3 Flasher relay for LED's.
It plug's right in in place of the stock flasher relay. (It will handle hazards & Blinkers) (3 Pin flasher relay)
3 PIN ELECTRONIC LED FLASHER BLINKER FIX 1157 3157 7443

Circuit explanation:
The diodes act as one way switches of the voltage (out), they block the return of the voltage into the other input lead. (PIV) Peak Inverse Voltage
With a rating of 50 volts PIV, they will not allow the voltage less than 50 volts from returning. Of course the higher the PIV rating, the higher the voltage it will block. 50 volts PIV is more than enough to block 14.5 volts from the car power even at full alternator charging.

To give you an example:
The parking light is on, passing voltage out the resistor & diode to the LED or bulb, the other diode connected to the turn signal lead will NOT allow that parking light voltage to return to the turn signal input.

When the turn signal is engaged, along with the the parking light being on, it will pass the blinker voltage to the LED or bulb.
The diode on the parking light will prevent or block the blinker voltage from returning into the parking light input.

To summarize, they both will pass voltage to the LED or bulb, but block the return of voltage to either of the inputs.

The resistor's role in the parking light is to dim the parking light output, thus when the blinker is engaged, it will illuminate brighter than the parking light.

hope that explains it a little better..
T

[tuanle16]

Originally Posted by tony_fury

My misunderstanding..

I designed a simple circuit for motorcycle two wire LED turn signals.
The same circuit would work for the side markers lights.

The circuit is nothing more than two diodes and a resistor.
Since the side marker lights are only two wires - 12V & ground this would work for what your trying to do. (side marker lights as running lights & turn signal)

You would basically feed the turn signal lead into one input (diode only lead) and the parking light lead (running light) into the other input. (diode with resistor)
The single output lead would go to the side marker light. plus the ground wire..

All the parts can be acquired from RadioShack. Simple to build, I used heat shrink tubing to enclose the components.
See drawing of the circuit below.
Your biggest challenge would be taping into the turn signal lead for each side.
You would need a total of 4 diodes and 2 resistors. RadioShack part numbers provided.
Hope this helps
T

wow. thanks tony!

[tony_fury]

Thanks...

Here's a picture of the components assembled with heat shrink tubing for insulating.
I basically soldered the wires to the ends of the components to allow for connection to the wires on the vehicle.

[tuanle16]

are you putting in an ad for harley's?

[tony_fury]

Originally Posted by tuanle16

are you putting in an ad for harley's?

Not at all, that was a pen I had on my bench...lol
I own a Honda motorcycle..

[Meir]

Hi Tony.
thanks a lot.
you explanation is perfect. in fact i understood it the firs time.
i know a thing or two about diodes and resistors.
the problems are:
1. i have the same relay you mentioned but it doesn't work
maybe a bad one? i sent an email to V-LEDS support. lets see what they say.
2. in your setup, the lights will stay on, and just become brighter when turn signal is activated. using relay it will go on and off just like regular turn signal.


if i can get the relay to work, i do not need to run a wire to the car.
i can use the signal power to run the relay and the LED.

with that said, i love your setup. its great. much more simple to preform.
i never thought of dimming the running light using a resistor.

plus, look what i got in my office drawers:

[tony_fury]

Meir:
Nice supply,

I do understand your relay concept

I have the EFL-3 in a box and never put it on the car. There was no need since my rear DEPO light have 1156 bulbs for turn signal keeping the load status quo..

I did read an article about a 914 owner that purchased a LED relay and had to reverse engineer it make it work.. Might fit your situation..
Porsche 914 EV Conversion: Installing LED Lights and Fixing the LED Flasher

good luck..
T

[Meir]

Originally Posted by tony_fury

Meir:
Nice supply,

I do understand your relay concept

I have the EFL-3 in a box and never put it on the car. There was no need since my rear DEPO light have 1156 bulbs for turn signal keeping the load status quo..

I did read an article about a 914 owner that purchased a LED relay and had to reverse engineer it make it work.. Might fit your situation..
Porsche 914 EV Conversion: Installing LED Lights and Fixing the LED Flasher

good luck..
T

thanks tony, ill give it a try.
where did you get the bulbs for the DEPO, and are you using the same bulbs for the front turn signal (the ones in the head light)?

[Homeboy981]

O.K. since we are on the subject. I have LEDs bulbs for front & rear turn signals (yellow) and ALL brake lights (I have replaced the third brake lights already-BRIGHT!), rear fog and backup lights too. All these bulbs are gathering dust because I have tried it and NOTHING. I have replaced the flasher with an electronic one, thought that would do it.

Anyway, I have not been able to find an answer. So far the best I have gotten is to butcher the system by installing load resistors - which I have, but wondered if there was a more elegant and less-invasive alternative….well Tony or Meir - you guys up for it?

You can PM me if you do not want to hi-jack the thread but with LEDs gaining in popularity AND them being far brighter, if you buys the right ones, I wold think more Pcar peeps would be using them. Maybe I'm just thick about this. Would the diagram for the 914 work? Meir, you have more selection that Radio Shack!

[Meir]

Originally Posted by Homeboy981

O.K. since we are on the subject. I have LEDs bulbs for front & rear turn signals (yellow) and ALL brake lights (I have replaced the third brake lights already-BRIGHT!), rear fog and backup lights too. All these bulbs are gathering dust because I have tried it and NOTHING. I have replaced the flasher with an electronic one, thought that would do it.

Anyway, I have not been able to find an answer. So far the best I have gotten is to butcher the system by installing load resistors - which I have, but wondered if there was a more elegant and less-invasive alternative….well Tony or Meir - you guys up for it?

You can PM me if you do not want to hi-jack the thread but with LEDs gaining in popularity AND them being far brighter, if you buys the right ones, I wold think more Pcar peeps would be using them. Maybe I'm just thick about this. Would the diagram for the 914 work? Meir, you have more selection that Radio Shack!

Looks like this weekend is going to be stormy down here, so no pool party for me
I'll give it a try this weekend and let you know.

[tony_fury]

Originally Posted by Meir

thanks tony, ill give it a try.
where did you get the bulbs for the DEPO, and are you using the same bulbs for the front turn signal (the ones in the head light)?

Meir:
The model DEPO rear lights were designed with light bulbs for turn signals and reverse lights, the front headlights have LED's built in. White LED's that flash amber when engaged. I'm not certain if the LED circuitry has built in load resistors. But the combination of the front and rears do not cause the hyper flash. I also change the 3rd brake light with a LED model and it didn't need load resistors. Had no ill effects that some members encountered with the cruise control not engaging that I read.
T

[Meir]

thanks a lot tony.
gonna tackle that this weekend.

[tony_fury]

Originally Posted by Homeboy981

O.K. since we are on the subject. I have LEDs bulbs for front & rear turn signals (yellow) and ALL brake lights (I have replaced the third brake lights already-BRIGHT!), rear fog and backup lights too. All these bulbs are gathering dust because I have tried it and NOTHING. I have replaced the flasher with an electronic one, thought that would do it.

Anyway, I have not been able to find an answer. So far the best I have gotten is to butcher the system by installing load resistors - which I have, but wondered if there was a more elegant and less-invasive alternative….well Tony or Meir - you guys up for it?

You can PM me if you do not want to hi-jack the thread but with LEDs gaining in popularity AND them being far brighter, if you buys the right ones, I wold think more Pcar peeps would be using them. Maybe I'm just thick about this. Would the diagram for the 914 work? Meir, you have more selection that Radio Shack!

What your describing and researching the web, I'm up for the challenge..
I might as well put my electronics skills to use.. I think a similar mod like the 914 is probably the resolution but would have to put it on the bench to reproduce it.. I have a EFL-3 and some LED's, let me see what I can replicate on the bench..
T

[tony_fury]

Ok, I found out some interesting info on the EFL-3 LED flasher..
It flashes just fine provided the LED it's powering has an integrated resistor.
I tried it with a 12V LED string without an integrated resistor and the LED's are dimly lit and notice a slight flash, but not bright enough to illuminate the LED's brightly.
It's almost like the integrate circuit within the relay must sense a certain resistance load before it will fully engage.
My guess without reverse engineering the relay components it has a current sense circuit in it.

The next variable is calculating the amount of resistance needed without drawing the current down too low towards the LED..

There has to be another 12V LED Flasher module that doesn't require resistance.
Reading the LED's without the integrated resistor read infinity, like an open circuit.

T

[Homeboy981]

Hey Tony,

Good work BTW. I understand about half of it...kidding. You ARE way over my head on the circuit thing. Don't know if this will help you solve it but the LED Mfr. say to use some load resistors in the circuit if it does not function with a flasher thingy. I have several of these load resistors - they are surprisingly large and must be, I guess, to turn electrical energy in to heat(?)

The load resistors I have but am unsure if it will even work if I use them are: 25watt and 6 ohm & 50watt and 6 ohm. Don't know if that helps. The electronic flasher was picked up at NAPA. It says for use with LEDs, WTH? Could it be another flasher or circuit that is hijacking all our good work?

I looked all over for answers but have yet to see any way to solve this LED debacle. I bought all these parts and hate to not use them. Especially since they would make our cars looks SO GOOD.

Don't worry Fury, they will NOT LOOK as good as yours! Your car is unique, for now. I may just dump the single bulb junk and get ones like yours…unless you can figure it out though! he-he (NOTE: that was an attempt at motivation)

Thanks for the deep research either way - I was lucky to get someone to respond much less do clinical trials!

"It takes a smart person to make our cars shine, even if it is not the owner!"

Thanks Again!