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Old 08-29-2016, 12:56 PM   #1
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Lowering rear of boxster

Because I love to frustrate myself, I've decided to do lower the rear myself using the boxster hack instructions for lowering a boxster. Seems pretty clear.
To mentally prepare myself, where should I expect frustration to occur? Good news is the calipers and brake line brackets are loose and the ims was done about 500 miles ago so hopefully less surprises regarding bolt issues.

I am going to allocate 1.5hrs at a time and play happy music to help get me through this. Oh, I got a helper for some of it.
Thanks in advance.

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Old 08-29-2016, 02:56 PM   #2
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If you mean you are going to remove the rear struts, replace the springs, and reinstall, you can do it. I used that same guide. Roughest part for me was getting the LCA ball joint ends off, but I did it So you can too
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Old 08-29-2016, 05:47 PM   #3
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Yup, replacing springs. Thanks for encouragement.

Got rotors off tonight and strut mount bolts loosened.
When I reassemble, is there any place I should not use anti seize? Since my broken bolt debacle, I am a bit paranoid.
Any tips on cleaning the threads for the calipers. They seemed a bit dirty.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:13 PM   #4
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I think there is such a thing as a thread chaser that is similar to a tap but doesn't cut away material like a tap. I have a set I got from ecs tuning that I used to clean up some threads and it worked pretty good.

Since I take off the calipers semi-regularly (not tons but more than a street only car) I've got a set of the Tarett caliper studs. They were expensive but I love them. Sometimes discounted sets show up on rennlist for sale.

Anti-seize... I use it a fair amount but don't have any official guidance... I think as long as you don't get it on the head of the bolt where it clamps the surface you would be ok. I used some on the ball joint ends of my lca and tie/toe rods when I replaced my suspension
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:23 PM   #5
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Good for you to ask about thread cleaning and anti-seize! For me, a lot of time goes into these details, that surely most "pro" mechanics wouldn't have time for. But, it makes a huge quality improvement to fuss over them.

For cleaning the threads, brake parts cleaner in a spray can with plastic stinger is pretty essential for me. That and paper towels. I usually set the dirty fasteners on a paper towel, give a mild spray on part to saturate, and wet the paper towel some too, then get paper towel nice and wet with the solvent, "wrap" the bolt threads with it, and using enough force to press the saturated paper towel deeply into the threads, give the bolt some back and forth twisting. Keep going (repeat if mecesssry) on new clean area of paper towel. You'll know the threads are clean when the paper towel and solvent applied comes back clean.

To clean threaded holes, it's harder, but you can twist a paper towel up into a little roll, stuff it in with plenty of saturated brake parts cleaner, and twist that first in, then out. Another tip is to use the blasting force of the solvent coming out of the can (through the plastic stinger - delivered right to the female threads) is another trick on the female threaded holes to clean them, but only blasting them with solvent to clean them can go through the fluid quickly, if you don't combine it with some mechanical agitation.

One thing I haven't found a solution for is, the brake parts cleaner is hard on the hands, (and this sort of work is guaranteed to make your hands very dirty), and even using thick nitrile gloves, they'll in a few minutes get degraded by it and even the solvent resistant glove material will expand, weaken, and then tear. Any cleaning solution that works well (especially with acetone will be very quick) will do this. But, aggressive solvent cleaning solutions like brake parts cleaner is simple the modt effective way of doing these fastener cleaning jobs, in my experience.

To apply the anti-seize, you want an even, thin, uniformly applied layer all over rate threads, and potentially a very thin coating up the shank of the bolt as well (anywhere corrosion is a concern, but underneath the bolt head I usually don't do). A fingertip (acceptable, if not recommended to have a nitrile glove on it) is the best tool I've found to help distribute the anti-seize deep and evenly into the threads, by pressing hard and rotating. You can observe it's coated all around the threads, and in all the them. First, you apply a small bit strategically in various locations on the threaded fastener, and it comes out kind of like toothpaste. Some larger anti-seize container have a brush applicator, which can be helpful. Try to brush the stuff around evenly but you'll still want to smear it evenly and uniformly thin with your finger (ideally). Sometimes, I will also take two identical bolts and rub their threaded surface against each other (with the bolt heads at opposite ends) and rotate them around each other several times to as uniformly as possible transfer and help spread the anti-seize out on them uniformly and thinly (you can also use this as a time saving trick to transfer a heavier amount of anti-seize from one bolt onto another bolt that doesn't have enough, or even any anti-seize applied to it.). Ideally, just make sure that you get enough to uniformly an thinly coat the threaded surfaces, and that it gets deep into the thread.

My preferred way of anti-seizing a female threaded hole is to insert a male-antiseized bolt by itself into the hole (threading it in much more deeply then usual), then unthreading it. Remove any excess antisense that would have been pushed to the edge - and what remains on the threads is usually just about perfect. If it seems like it was still dry after doing that once, you can repeat the process, and apply more if desired. Or add more to the male part, and consider it good as some will transfer to the female threads during final assembly. Sometimes, when accessibility permits, you can even thread the bolt in from the back side of the hole, to get the anti-seize more uniformly distributed back there.

The new Porsche bolts have factory applied aluminum+zinc coating, but it will be removed (rubbed away, basically) in areas where they have made metal to metal contact. Anti-seize of most common grade is pretty much zinc, so will keep those areas from corroding. And using anti-seize is important when you have dissimilar metals (like steel bolt going into aluminum... look up "galvanic series" for more info), or areas subject to high heat (exhaust system fasteners in particular are notorious for heat-induced corrosion... as heat accelerates oxidation, so use of anti-seize on them is important) and the last area of corrosion to consider anti-seize are all areas that get wet with water. (Suspension and under-car fasteners often fall into this category.). The anti-seize will coat the bare metal areas, keeping out corrosion, and also can displace open areas where water get get into, and sit. (Like, capillary action between a dry nut+bolt - anti-seize will keep water from wicking up in the and corroding them.)

Any fasteners that are damaged, replace. I think Porsche technically may recommend replacing many fasteners, but in practice, once can get away re-using as long as they're not damaged, and especially if you clean them thorough and apply a light coating of anti-seize to control corrosion. (in fact, done with good cleaning and anti-seize, I would have confidence such a treated used fastener would last longer (before becoming corroded) than new fasteners installed dry - take a look at how well factory "dry-assembled" fasteners last when removing them after lots of miles and weather, to get a sense of how well that works. Sometimes it's OK, other times it's not OK!

When I redid my Porsche suspension, and used anti-seize, I don't recall having any problems torquing fasteners to the full, listed Porsche specifications. When you torque fasteners, you can develop a "feel", however, if the threads are beginning to yield, the resistance drops. If you feel this, a red flag should go off - stop torquing right away. It may be that the torque specifications you can working from have an error (this can happen, so always apply common sense and pay attention to the "feel" when torquing!). You will also *not* be able to get a torque wrench on *all* your fasteners. If this happens, use a wrench you can get on to duplicate the torque of another fastener with identical size and torque spec that you could get a torque wrench on.

Hope this helps - best of luck and let us know if you have any other questions!

Ps - for this application I would recommend the typical zinc-based (gray colored) anti-seize. There are certain very special applications where you'll want something different like copper-based, but I'm not sure if there are any in this car.
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
If you mean you are going to remove the rear struts, replace the springs, and reinstall, you can do it. I used that same guide. Roughest part for me was getting the LCA ball joint ends off, but I did it So you can too
If you are going to replace the springs anyway, just remove and install them while the struts are in the car...it may seem daunting, but it's 10 times easier than removing everything else.
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:48 PM   #7
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Regarding thread chasers, they can be useful also, I have a set I eventually accumulated, as use routinely when I'm not too rushed - especially when there are any damaged or badly corroded threads.

(Here's what my set looks like


If you have excessive corrosion build-up, they help get it off fast. You can use them in the cleaning regimen, along with the brake parts cleaner and paper towels.

If you drop a bolt and ding the end, they help clean it up. On coated threads, they can potentially remove the coating where they work, which is not necessarily good - as the coating helps prevent corrosion. If the coating gets removed, it's more important to use Anti-seize on areas which has had the coating removed, (if corrosion protection is important). Best of luck!

PS - someone has suggested replacing steel bolts going into aluminum with stainless, to control corrosion. Not necessarily a good idea, in my opinion and experience. Stainless is much further away from aluminum on the galvanic series than either mild steel is, or than the typical coatings applied to steel fasteners are (like in the case of many Porsche fasteners, the spun-applied aluminum and zinc coating). The result of a stainless fastener threaded into aluminum can be more corrosion (and it will be pitting of the aluminum, not of the stainless steel!) of the stainless-aluminum interface than mild steel or coated mild steel to aluminum (which would be pitting of the mild steel or zinc coating - generally much easier to correct when bad, by replacing the corroded bolt or capscrew. When you have a bolt/fastener corrosion concern, anti-seize is often a really good solution!

Does it take more time to apply? Yes. For this reason, a careful enough DIY mechanic can often outperform the quality of a pro - although taking much more time in cleaning and preparing the disassembled parts prior to reassembly when doing so.

Do you need to be careful to torque properly? always (whether using anti-seize or not).
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Old 08-29-2016, 09:38 PM   #8
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Hold the fort, how does one remove springs while still in car for back. If possible I would live to know.

Thanks guys for all the useful
Thread stuff. Very good stuff. I will read it all again in the am. 1:42 am here and a car alarm went off.
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Old 08-30-2016, 05:02 AM   #9
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If you are going to replace the springs anyway, just remove and install them while the struts are in the car...it may seem daunting, but it's 10 times easier than removing everything else.
You are looking at an alignment anyway due to the lowered springs, so I guess you could disconnect the toe arm and the LCA at the body side (where the eccentric bolts are) and not fool with the ball joint end at all I was replacing my LCA anyway so I had to remove the ball end...
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Old 08-30-2016, 05:46 AM   #10
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Thanks Steve,
Now I am not the familiar with the different names of suspension parts. I have the pelican diagram from 101 replacing struts. Is the lca the same as the control arm or the control arm? Just disconnect from the chassis mount. What is the toe arm? Sorry, learning as I go.

David
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Old 08-30-2016, 06:44 AM   #11
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#9 is what I am calling LCA (Lower control arm, also called coffin arm). That ball joint can be a b**** to remove. You may be able to only remove the #12 bolt to lower the wheel carrier (and leave the ball joint connected) to remove the strut, since you are going to have to do an alignment anyway due to the lowered springs. #12 bolt is what sets the neg camber for the rear wheels. This #12 bolt needs to be tightened with the wheels on the ground, ramps, or a lift.

#8 Is called rear track arm or trailing arm, you will remove the #10 bolt and slide it up the LCA to free the LCA and allow it to move.

#17 is the toe rod, that eccentric bolt #18 is what controls the toe alignment settings. That bolt gives a very small range of possible adjustment, and when Boxsters are lowered sometimes it doesn't provide enough range to give the desired toe setting, and so the neg camber setting has to be compromised (I'm not sure in which direction, too much or too little, and keep in mind that this neg camber setting also has a limited range as well, maybe .5-.7 degree range of motion) in order to get acceptable toe. If this happens, you need something like this to give you more toe adjustment: http://www.rennline.com/Adjustable-Rear-Toe-Arm/productinfo/S62/ or this more expensive version with bump steer correction: http://www.rennline.com/Rear-Toe-Control-Arm-W_Bump-Steer-Kit/productinfo/S70.10.41/

Edit: there is another less expensive way to get more rear toe adjustments, combine these two parts:
http://www.rennline.com/Inner-Adjustable-Rear-Toe-Arm/productinfo/S64/
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-steering-tie-rod-end-911-boxster-cayman-43943026381

Note that my terms may not match the "correct" terms but hopefully this diagram helps to clear up what I am saying.

When Pelican says "Chassis mount" when referring to the suspension I believe they mean bolts 12 and 18.




Also let me add a disclaimer - when I did my strut replacement I also did wheel bearings at all 4 corners and so I removed everything from the strut and also completely removed the axles. If I wasn't doing the wheel bearings I "think" I could have gotten away with only disconnecting the axles at the transmission side and removing bolts 10, 12, and 18 in order to drop the hub down. Since I removed the axles completely I didn't have to drop the mid pipes from the exhaust, but I think if the axle was left connected on the hub you would have to drop some of the exhaust. It is a good time to install 2nd cat delete pipes

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Old 08-30-2016, 07:27 AM   #12
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Hold the fort, how does one remove springs while still in car for back. If possible I would live to know.

Thanks guys for all the useful
Thread stuff. Very good stuff. I will read it all again in the am. 1:42 am here and a car alarm went off.
I don't think that you will be able to remove the springs, you will need to remove the strut in one piece and dissasemble it out of the car...

Don't worry as this is still plenty of fun...

One suggetion is to be extra careful when you remove the ball joint from the wheel hub, because you don't want to tear the rubber that keeps the grease on the ball joing, otherwise you will have to buy a new lower control arm and these are not cheap...

BTW, how many miles on your car? Because these control arms are wear items...

Good luck!

PS: After reading Steve comments, his suggestion of removing the bolt from the base instead of the ball joint is a much safer approach so you don't risk damaging the rubber boot

Last edited by Gilles; 08-30-2016 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 08-30-2016, 08:58 AM   #13
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First, thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

Car has 50k on it. Car was aligned when IMS was done about 500 miles eariler. No mention of problems with rear suspension though pointed out other issues and fixed. Car has Bilstein HD and I am trying to install H&R lowering springs. I was told by multiple people that no other parts would be needed. Hopefully correct or i would not have taken this on.

So I am bit confused now. Steves suggestion of removing the bolts holding the LCA and toe rod to the chassis makes sense to me. With those disconected, the only thing I believe attaching the wheel carrier to the chassis is the axle. Is that going to be an issue? How about number 8 and 16 on the non LCA side. Where do they attach and do I need to remove at number 8 or can I just remove number 10 and slide 8 off of the LCA. I feel like I am helping my son with math.

Now from Gilles it seems I need to remove the whole strut.

Gilles, are you saying I can do what Steve suggests and then remove the strut from the carrier or something else? I think Steve was suggesting I might be able to remove spring with strut attached. Gilles I think is saying no. Fauxdiablo suggested an easier way but waiting for response from him. Maybe he has done it.

I am add the point now where I can either continue to follow my instructions or try the above method. Hopefully my original plan is not needed.
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:15 AM   #14
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My suggestion is to lower the wheel carrier by detaching as few parts as possible, then remove the strut from the carrier (it is held on by the bolt that holds the drop link), replace the spring on the bench, and then put it all back together.

I would try this procedure (this assumes caliper and stuff is all out of the way already)
  • Remove bolt 10 and slide that arm out of the way. The other end (bolt 16) connects to the chassis ahead of the rear wheels, but you don't need to loosen that end)
  • Remove bolt 18 and remove bolt 12.
  • Then remove bolt 5 from this diagram.
  • At this point see if you can slide the wheel carrier down off the strut and free the bottom of the strut. If it can clear the strut then yay! Remove the 3 nuts on top and remove the strut, replace the spring, and reverse the steps to reinstall.

If the wheel carrier doesn't drop enough to clear the strut, then it is probably the axle hitting the midpipes. I'm not sure if you need to drop the mid pipes and disconnect the axles on the transmission side, or just one or the other. You for sure do NOT need to disconnect the axle/wheel hub end unless you are doing wheel bearings which you are not.

You may not need the rear toe adjusting arms, that may be just for folks that are doing extreme lowering. If your original strut top mounts and bump stops are in good shape, you shouldn't need any new parts except for a new nut for the strut top as it is single use. Although bump stops are pretty cheap, I would put new ones while you are in there. Sorry for the extra parts scare
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:34 AM   #15
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Your set is much more comprehensive than mine

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