My first REAL SCARE with the Boxster! need some advice..
 

On my Sunday morning spirited drive i was coming out of a tunnel at full throttle and it suddenly started to shake at 80 mph. as i pulled over the oil pressure light came on.
My first thought is.. well.. the engine finally gave up. 2000 2.7 130k, IMS direct oil feed done a year ago with double row bearing as the one it came with. first thing i do is go look under the car waiting to see oil and chunks of engine guts everywhere but not one drop of anything. i breathe again..

i let it sit for a couple of minutes, check the oil level and its good. i figured i would drive it slow on the shoulder to get off the very busy highway but while i did that the light came on and off intermittently for a few hundred feet then went away completely so i drove it home 6-7 miles. it drove normally, was making power, temp gauge didnt budge so i got home safe.

what am i looking at here? oil pump? oil sender?
when this happened i had been driving it flat out for about an hour and a half (i dont get up at 6 to drive for nothing :D)

other things to mention is i have been having two small oil leaks which seem to be coming from the spark plug tubes on both sides on the cylinders towards the front of the engine. i was about to look further into those next weekend. when i say small i mean there is never a drop of oil on the garage floor so the leak is prob only when the engine is running. the oil level never dropped at all in 3000 miles.

what a scare! it's the engine vibrating that made my heart skip a beat. is that normal with sudden oil pressure loss?


any advice would be appreciated guys! i'm going up north on a 3000 mile drive in two weeks and i need to have this sorted.

thanks,

Cristian

When the shaking started, did you lose all power as well? I'm curious to know how much power, if any, you had.

If the oil pressure came on at idle maybe your oil was really hot and thinned out? What was your water temp gauge reading?

Misfires could cause shaking and a flashing CEL, did you see any aos type smoke bombs? Maybe because of the tunnel you didn't see it?

Do you have a durametric or a way to see if you have any stored codes?

You can change the oil filter and cut off the ends of the old one and spread it out to look for any debris?

Scan the car with a Porsche specific scan tool, looking for any stored pending codes.

i didnt lose all power but not sure how much either because i backed off the gas and let it coast.

that could be it. i did 3000 miles on this oil change and i tend to drive it hard. the car has actually been sitting for one month while i was out of the country and this was the first hard drive. when i pulled the dipstick to check the oil level there was a bit of smoke/vapor coming out so maybe the oil was hot and thinned.

i am due for an oil change anyway. my walmart Mobile just got here so i think i'll run and do it now and see how it goes.

thanks! i'll stop by a place tomorrow and have it hooked up.
ill do the oil change in the meantime.

Hello,

i agree with JFP in PA. First do an electronic diagnosis with a Porsche specific diagnosis tool. I think there will be some hints.

If you get no results (not alternatively to an electronic diagnosis first):
Pull the sparks and look what they look like.
Check the oil filter for plastic debris. Especially plastic parts from chain rails.
Do an oil pressure test with an adapter and a oil pressure gauge like described in the workshop manual.

Questions:
Is your car an MT or an AT?
Do you use a low temp 71 degree water thermostat?

Regards, Markus

Now, does anyone care to hazard a guess as to what area of the engine he will find codes for?

OH CRAP!!!

it looks like my engine is toast! :(

oil filter housing had a lot of metal particles and the filter is full of green plastic bits..


http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/...psxxzdw76v.jpg


http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3ll4wqyh.jpg


http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/...psr3yhsiud.jpg


on the way to the shop (6 miles away) i got a bit of vibration and the oil pressure light came on for a second.

fresh oil and a new filter and driving home the light came on for half a second.
engine doesnt clunk or anything but its probably eating itself up inside.


DAMN! should i still try and take it to get it checked or assume it's gone?

i am having a bad Sunday to say the least. if it is dead at least it went out like a sports car, pushing hard at 7200 RPM in a tunnel screaming like a murder victim. a worthy death. :ah:

Cam deviation bank 1-3?

is the green plastic chain tensioner ramp which prob went bad and screwed up the timing which made the engine chew itself up?

i thought that would throw a code or something when it went out of norm.

Sorry, I feel your pain. Try and remain optimistic, don't assume the worst until you KNOW.

Optimism won't fix the problem, but it won't ruin your day. Do the diagnosis, and even if things still point south, do a tear down to confirm.

I speak from experience... Just because you assume somthhing is toast, it's no reason to liven up the mood by going at it with a sledgehammer; sure, it's fun, but when you find it's just a bad gasket, that's when you find out how bad a day you really can have. :)

Hello JFP in PA,

i would have said camshaft devation problem as an error code.

Hello CrisZenithBlue,

1.) please clean the plastc debris from the oil and tell us which color it has. I would suspect a light brownish color. I wouldn't suspect a green color.

2.) please check if the metal flakes are magnetic or not.

3.) don't drive the car.

4.) stay cool. ;)

Thanks, & regards, Markus

Interesting call, now tells us why?

Failure of the hydraulic cam adjuster. The green material is from the seals inside the unit.

Bingo!..... Now why did the seals fail on that particular unit?

Took it to vertex auto here in Miami and just showing them the filter filled with crap and the amount of metal shaving plus the oil pressure issue and they confirmed its toast.

I stopped driving it of course to prevent it from grenading itself.

I am thinking rebuilding it is the way to go. I have a mechanic that does this on a regular basis and he would rebuild it for 3500-4000$ with parts included. At least that way I know everything will be looked over and I know what's in the engine as opposed to taking a risk on a used one.

What do you guys think?

I love the car too much to give it up and I've tailored it to my liking. Don't have the time or patience to start over on something new..
I'll throw in a new sport suspension while he's at it, at 130k it's toast and front left shock spilled it's guts all over the control arm.

I get mad thinking "these cars don't last!!!" Then I remember it's a 16 year old car that I drive the crap out every single day and even with this investment I'll still be under 20 grand which for me is good value.

Gotta keep on rolling! :D

Can't put a price on a car that you love. If you know the car and wouldn't want a different one, then do it. Essentially you'll either be paying more for another Boxster that could have some hidden demons, or you could spend $4000 on yours and have it back to the way it was - but better.

I'd say rebuild.

Not entirely sure but I have made a lot of popcorn guessing that the IMS DOF may have something to do with this if it is bearing related.

Hello CrisZenithBlue,

i would say it is a financial decision.

What would it cost to buy a car that gives you the same driving fun and doesn't have the expensive 986 issues.

For how much can you sell the 986 as is (roller).

For how much can you sell the 986 and part out the good parts – if that is an option. But that takes time and space.

I think 3.500-4.000 USD is a very good price for an engine revision. But as always this is just a rough estimate i think. You know the real price if the engine is disassembled. And it is very easy to throw another thousands in.

And if you throw another amount in the car, the car is still 16 years old. So there will be another thousands following next time; just because it's a Porsche. ;)

Not an easy decision i think.

Regards, Markus

That would seriously grind my gears as that is the first thing I did to the car when I got it.
It's gonna get teared down so we will find out for sure!

And if it got out of timing that would explain a lot and not be a catastrophic failure.

But the one rule is STOP driving at the first sign of an issue. That can be the difference between a minor fix (cam chain tensioners) and total engine failure.

You would not be the first..............

If you are talking about DOF, are we talking about this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnVaMjaxGk

Some thoughts on that.
Every oil circuit has an oil filter bypass. So the oil is not filtered under all circumstances.
The IMS bearing material wasn't designed for an motor oil feed. Is was designed for a special grease filling.

But hey, maybe i think too much sometimes. ;)

Regards, Markus

And just what specifically gets updated and done for the ~$4k? I ask because a total rebuild by a well known rebuilder runs 5+ times that. So thinking that all the issues will be solved for $4k seems too good to be true to me. I can see a healthy $1k just for the removal and re-installation of the engine/trans. That only leaves $3k for the cleanup of the engine that has all the shavings that were ending up in the oil filter you saw plus new parts. AOS, water pump, tensioners, IMS, RMS, pads, plugs and coils. But then what do the mains look like, the rod bearings, the cylinders.

I've read a lot of postings about engines that had the half done rebuilds that failed soon after.

yes i have the tuneRS DOF system. i'd be seriously pissed if thats what failed but we'll see. I have the double row bearing that was replaced with the DOF. the original bearing with 111000 miles on it looked good when taken out, i've done oil changes every 4-5k miles and i've driven the car almost on a daily basis (30 miles plus) in the last year except for a couple of months when i was out of the country. and i drove it like it was meant to be driven, garage queen she was not.. so i dont think it was the IMS that went..

i am not sure yet until my mechanic opens it up but will definitely post the findings and the plan, this is a time when i really need advice and input from you guys.
i will not accept a half rebuild and if i have to spend more to get it done properly i will. it still makes more sense to me than to pay 4k for a used engine that i know nothing about and another 1k to drop it in.

at a well known Porsche specialist Vertex in Miami they quoted 10k to put a rebuilt engine in it, out of which 1200$ labor. they would give me 12 months warranty or 12.000 miles but cant track it. too rich for my blood and dont like the warranty conditions, i plan on tracking it.

so with that in mind i went to my mechanic who builds old 911s from the ground up and has plenty of experience with water cooled engines and he said he could do it for around 4k. if it costs more then so be it, i wont cheap out as i plan to get at least a couple of fun filled years out of the car.

The metal shavings in the oil would worry me. Greatly.

I don't know how you can tear the motor down enough to sufficiently flush all of the complex network of oil passages clean, much less rebuild anything, for $4000.

For that $, I think I'd start with a known good 3.2L motor from an S and do the necessary upgrades to that while it's out of the car--cam chains/adjusters/ramps, AOS, water pump, IMS, RMS, etc. That would likely run ~$10k at a minimum...

I think you will find that the DOF is still fine, but your bank 1 VarioCam unit not so much, which resulted in all the damage. That said, it is entirely possible that one was involved in the demise of the other. On the M96/97 engines, you have to be very careful about where you draw oil from, as other systems are not always happy about that happening. You are not the first to encounter issues.

@ JFP in PA: Interesting point. Porsche used a different way. The X51 996 models have an additional oil line from the oil pump on the left side to the "back" – OK on a 996 it's vice versa.

Regards, Markus

I'm willing to bet that the metal in the oil filter housing is not magnetic, but from the main & big end bearings - hence the lack of oil pressure (flashing oil light), coupled with very thin, high temperature oil.

Regarding the oil feed to the DOF, it may well work on paper and maybe for street use but CrisZenith was driving "flat out for an hour and a half" which puts into question the possibility of oil starvation to the bearings. Especially taking the oil feed from the cylinder head and not the oil filter area.
Sometimes robbing Peter to pay Paul is not always successful. I think I'll stick with my simple LN ceramic IMS bearing which has been in the engine since 2010......

DOF's have caused problems? What info can you share?

I hate to see threads like this. Thankfully they benefit the knowledge of this whole community. I don't post much in them because all I can give is speculation, but I'm always around to read and watch.

I'm sorry about your Boxster and I'm sorry for your wallet.

green bits
 

I have had the same thing in my filter. I was told that is was the seal on the cam adjuster.Why do these fail? I am planning on doing the work plus the adjuster ramps and tensor this fall. Am I looking for problems doing this. Nothing else is showing in the filter.
I have a 2000 S with approximately 89,000 miles.

Hello,

can somebody explain to a stupid guy like me where there is a green seal or anything greenish on the camshaft adjust mechnism?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...mall/Pic19.jpg
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...mall/Pic26.jpg

Thanks & regards, Markus

It has been written up on line previously, with those at the shop involved labeled as "liars" and "shills for the competition" by the people that market the product, so it doesn't need another rehash here. My shop, and others, have seen problems with it, mainly oil starvation in one cylinder head, which no one seems interested in addressing other than to start calling names and threatening lawsuits to silence any discussion.

You can't see it, it is inside the VarioCam unit itself. Porsche published a VarioCam technical guide with diagrams that show where it is. VarioCam+ have even more of the green seals due to the lift adjustment.

I don't see an IMS failure here. Get a magnet and see if the trash in your filter is magnetic. If not, your IMS bearing is very likely fine. One or both of your variocam adjusters seem to have bit the dust, Contact Woody to see if he has replacements. While you are in there you might consider new chain ramps and tensioners. :)

regardless of what it was that caused it.. i am getting a bit concerned about a rebuild not lasting.

could i get some input on what is a MUST to replace while rebuilding?

also, would you say it's better to drop a used engine because of the difficulty of cleaning the broken one? is it really that difficult to clean the metal shavings?

i'm about to pull the trigger and having some second thoughts about the rebuild hearing some of the concerns.