Calling Out Pedro Bonilla!
 

Pedro,

Why are you re-selling the iCarsoft PORII for a significant markup, and calling it something else, as if it's something special that has something to do with your business?

I want to know. Is there something special about the one you're selling, or are you just trying to profit off of owners that don't know it's just an iCarsoft?

I'm not just trying to be confrontational; I really want to know what's special about the unit you're selling. If nothing, then I am trying to save owners that may be duped by you from doing so.
Hot - Hot - Hot ...

Thanks!
Charles

PS: I see that you let the thread on you page go quiet AND lowered your markup (still cheaper to just buy it from iCarsoft). Is it because you got caught?
We can save your rebranded $20 HID kit that you're selling for $200(!) for another discussion.

Edit: added text from post #27 below.

What's this all about? I can't stand liars, especially those that lie in an attempt to profit from others.

Quite frankly, I don't care what the few think. Pedro outright lied on his board, claiming that this was some new product he developed and then marked it up $75 from the real deal. This is a pattern of behavior with him (not the first time) and anyone with a brain and fingers to operate a keyboard can check.

If he comes out and admits to lying, after being caught red-handed, I might consider deleting my posts. Otherwise, this thread and my opening statement will stand as record and be updated regularly.

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/a...3DD3486B97.png

This will be interesting!
Asking people to 'email' their credit card details is a no-no!

Charles,

Pretty sure it's called capitalism. Similar to:

Suncoast Porsche Parts & Accessories Center Cap Set - Full Color

Porsche Color Crest Flat Center Caps Set of 4 | eBay

Porsche Silver Concave OE Wheel Rim Center Caps 911 928 Boxster Cayman | eBay

Porsche Wheel Center Caps Set of 4 Silver with Gold Crest | eBay

4 Car Alloy Wheel Center Logo Cap Hub Crest Badge 77mm Face Silver USA Seller | eBay

Porsche 944 951 968 911 928 Color Crested Center Wheel Caps 928 361 032 11 TPP | eBay

Whether you pay $20, $50, $100 or $300.....bottom line it they are all small circular pieces of cheap plastic. And the choice is yours.

Not sure why you would bust a guy's chops for reselling a product, it happens every day at thousands of retailers across the country. Prices vary for many reasons, but you shouldn't blast him for selling something that he feels may be beneficial to others at a price that makes financial sense to him. If you don't like the product or the price, don't buy it.

Also if you do some research you can see that the price that Pedro is charging for this product falls right in the middle of the range ($175 to $249), so it's not like he is "gouging" anyone.

He is being intentionally deceitful.

I'm calling him out for implying that it is a new product, and his product (he calls it the technOBDII or something) that can only be purchased through him.
He never mentions that it's just an iCarsoft PORII that has nothing to do with him.

And 10x markup on that HID kit is just robbery. Again, he tries to pass it off as his own product and imply that it is somehow better than the $20 Asian kits on eBay when in fact, it is the exact same thing (he doesn't even change the sticker, last I checked).

Why are you defending someone that tries to rip off other owners?
Comparing OEM Porsche parts and markup is not the same as someone that tries to pass off cheap products as great products AND includes a ridiculous markup.

To be clear, the iCarsoft sells for $150-$175. It is also junk (a glorified OBDII reader with no advanced functions - claims it can shut off airbag light, but online reports say otherwise).
He was initially setting his price at $250. That is no small markup. He has since lowered that to $200 due to being called out in the other thread. I'm protecting unwary owners...I don't expect him to actually reply.

I've read your spew ...
 

… but I won't dignify it with an answer.
You are such a class act!
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Hahaha! That's exactly what I thought. :D
That you feel defensive enough to imply an insult directed at me shows both your level of integrity and intellect, and that my post struck true.

I'll just keep bumping this up to the top every once in a while so that all future owners will be warned. ;)

I'm not trying to sell anyone anything.


For the butthurt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ks_wf1O0mA

:D

I am not defending anyone, I am merely stating my opinion, just like you are.

I looked at the two items in question and I do not see any language that says his product is superior to another. Also, the product may be "new" to him, so wouldn't it be correct to call it new? That also happens all the time, it's called marketing.

Comparing mark-up at retail or mark-up of a private label product or service with others is extremely valid. How many resellers of car covers, after market wheels, short shift kits, LED lights, etc. are there? And they all set their prices based on "what the market will bear"... Is that wrong?

Again...if you don't like the guy, OK, don't interact with him.

If you don't like the product, don't buy it.

If you don't like the price, buy it from someone else.

But don't bust his balls for making a buck. His product is $199 vs $179 to $249 (iCarsoft is not the only seller of this product)...pretty sure he's not "gettin' rich" on the $20 mark up.

Again, my post is more to inform other owners. I knew Pedro wouldn't provide an answer.

BTW, he absolutely does imply that "his products" are superior through his posts on his forum and through his "technical articles". I've got nothing against him, personally. I don't know the guy.

Don't like my post? Don't read it or engage in the conversation. If your sole purpose is to allow other owners to be deceived by trying to invalidate my points, I must call into question your motives.

BTW, thank you for helping me keep this topic alive and at the top! :)

Free pedro
 

I first called Pedro 4 years ago to ask something, I cant remember what it was. He ended up spending at least 30 min. answering stupid ass questions all the time being extremely polite. He steered me AWAY from buying a part from him! Twice I have called him and he helped me again without him knowing me or me having spent 1 red cent. Mr. Partical wave I value your posting however, today I feel you missed the mark. The next person I spoke to was Woody on this forum and I thought it cant be true to have 2 unselfish friendly people not caring about money first in there business from 1 forum but it is true.

While I'll admit I may have been a bit rough on the markup issue, my question still stands:

What's so special about the iCarsoft unit that he is selling (rebranded, of course)?

And again, he only dropped the price from $250 to $200 after being called out for it. His original markup was $75. Click the link that I provided in the first post. He clearly implies that it is a new product exclusive to him, only available through him. If he edited that out, I have a cached version I can provide. ;)

I'm glad that you had a good experience with him, as many have, but that does not excuse purposeful deceit.

Another thought here is that for a new owner, like myself, the information provided by the OP is a way for me to learn about all the products available. Maybe the $20 is worth it to have a person at the other end. Maybe, it doesn't matter so the lower price works. For me the problem is calling item A something else to gather sales.

I'm gonna get out my popcorn and watch "High Noon" tonight.:dance:

Hahaha! :D

I won't address any more defenses of his tactics, so no showdown. :(
My post was meant more to be informative. All of the information should be weighed by any individual in order to make an informed decision about buying marked up products. High markup is a thing of the past, thanks to the Internet. A bit of searching will get you to the source and cut out most, if not all, of the middle men.

If he were not a member here, seeking to profit from other unsuspecting members, this would never be an issue.
Vendors don't get the treatment because they don't masquerade as members with your best interests in mind. He got caught lying. Get over it.

Nothing new, but I don't see the problem.

I am always linking people to the parts catalogue, because buying based on part numbers will save you a significant amount versus buying from some Porsche specific online stores. It doesn't stop most people from buying at a markup. If Pedro can make some money marking it up, good for him. I've got nothing against Pedro, he's always been very helpful, and he does offer a few parts that cannot be found elsewhere, but there are cheaper alternatives for a few of his products. For instance, the technoBrace started life as a DIY on this forum several years ago. Link

The main intent of you post was not to inform other owners, your intent was to "call someone out"....read the title.....there's a big difference. If your goal was to provide information, you could do it in a more educational fashion. There are many good post on this forum, by fine upstanding people, that simply want to provide knowledge and assistance...all for the greater good.

Calling out someone because you have some type of personal vendetta or dislike for is self-serving at best and exposes your true motives. Providing well-documented information or heart felt assistance is one thing....spewing disrespectful "hate speak" is another animal all together.

Words you should strive to live by:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt."

Personal vendetta? You're kidding, right?

As far as helping others on this forum, that's about all I do. The reason he was called out is because he's had more than a month to reply to considerate and polite inquiries about the rebranded iCarsoft, but chose to ignore them.

You keep defending the tactics discussed, mentioning the markup issue, but completely ignore the real issue that I'm addressing: purposeful deceit by one of our members for the sole selfish purpose of making a profit off of unsuspecting owners.
Therefore, you have been deemed unworthy of future response since you have shown that protecting the interests of those seeking to profit from ignorance are more important than helping our community. :)

I have been deemed unworthy by you? WTFAY?

You have definitely "removed all doubt".

Now...who called out who?

Pedro has been very helpful to a number of members here, including myself. So, personally, I'm dismayed to see this thread.

Many, many companies private label products from other suppliers. Unless they're running a philanthropic organization, they'll mark those products up. Sorry, this is economic reality and yes, marketing, and shouldn't be very surprising to any of us.

I wish you'd taken a "here's an affordable OBD II reader from iCarsoft" approach to informing less knowledgeable members, as opposed to the approach you took.

Just my $ .02

As have I.
That doesn't make it okay for him to purposely deceive 986 owners. ;)

I challenge anyone to refute my deceit claims. You can't because it's right there in my first post for the whole world to see. If you're hurt because you feel I'm attacking your buddy, that's too bad. Feelings don't change facts and I don't adhere to the "everyone gets a trophy" PC mentality. I call it as I see it.

How about this with no other proof to back it up?

The technoFix DOF is newly patented technology which we now keep in stock, ready to ship.

Pedro has been a "class act" to me, a lone Canuck lost in Florida not too long ago! I have his HID and am happy with them. Not to say anything bad about any members on this forum. They all been most helpful. I would hope that anyone thinking of purchasing any product would do research on these. Thanks particlewave for telling me about other products as well.

I like my duck, roasted with orange sauce. :D

Well, enterprising businessmen have been re-branding and re-selling at a markup for at least 3000 years. No rebranding disclosure required and totally legit in my book. Caveat Emptor. Porsche, Proctor and Gamble, Miller Brewing, Budweiser, Pelican Parts, are just the tip of a very big re-branding iceberg.

I appreciate both Pedro and Particle for there thoughtful contributions in this forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion I suppose.

My opinion on this thread:

Pedro- 1

Particle- 0


:chicken:

that's actually this piece sold by tuneRS ...

http://shop.tunersmotorsports.com/?product=direct-oil-feed-dof-97-05-early-style

would that be called rebranded unsubstantiation?

or unsubstantiated rebranding?

Particlewave...Oh the irony...
 

you claim to not know him and have nothing against him but everything you have posted suggests otherwise. Please take a class in economics to learn how things work...you really think he is the only person rebranding products made by a common manufacturer? How many times have you heard of "porsche" branded products that cost more in the porsche labeled box even though they are the same as the oem branded product? Have you sent a message to porsche asking why their products are more and why they are superior? You really seem to care little about getting answers to your supposed questions and instead care more about ruining his credibility and business. Don't you sell some form of light kit as well or am I thinking of someone else? Could that be part of the reason for these attacks? I can't say I would buy anything from you if that was the case based on your childish actions. Are we really supposed to believe that you have the 986 communities interests at heart when you make posts like this?

Pedros website says:

Maybe it's my bad english skills, but to me that sounds like he says he has developed it. To me that would be misleading, because it's a generic tool.

But everybody can decide where to buy and at which price. And i'm pretty shure there are people that will buy the product at his higher price, because they like his products in general and aren't on a budget when it comes to their Porsche. ;)

I personally would always only buy at the best price. That's something i've learned from people that really don't have to care about a dollar, but always take care about their outgoings.

Just my 2 cents

Regards, Markus

Nice try, but I don't sell anything, pal. ;)
I have never once offered a product for sale...ever.
As a matter of fact, every mod I've done to my car has been accompanied by a DIY so that our members can do it themselves. All free, but again, nice try.
All I've ever done on this site is try to help people save time, work and money.
I'm 37 and retired, so you really don't want to get into a debate about economics with me, smurf. :)
Besides, we are actually discussing unethical business practices, so quit with the sad attempts at misdirection before I am forced to make a fool of you.

What's this all about? I can't stand liars, especially those that lie in an attempt to profit from others.

Quite frankly, I don't care what the few think. Pedro outright lied on his board, claiming that this was some new product he developed and then marked it up $75 from the real deal. This is a pattern of behavior with him (not the first time) and anyone with a brain and fingers to operate a keyboard can check.

If he comes out and admits to lying, after being caught red-handed, I might consider deleting my posts. Otherwise, this thread and my opening statement will stand as record and be updated regularly.

Really dude? You are 37 and already sound like an angry old man. Maybe you should unretire your self and find other things to do than save the members of the board $20. Let me get this staight if you don't manufacture a product but sell it you are an evil rebrander? I could care less if the product is identical to icarsoft or not, I don't think he owes you or anybody an explanation. Why don't you call him and find out if you really are so intrigued by this.

BTW " heads up" I don't mind. This I do

Not all of us have the time to research every purchase we make. I find something I like, maybe read a review or two and buy it. It would irritate the Hell out of me to find I'd been taken advantage of by a popular vendor. I certainly appreciate the "heads up".

particlewave- not the hero 986forum wants, the hero 986forum needs

I like to know what I'm buying. The more information, the better. I don't assume every businessman is honest, that's why I use google a lot. Not all people do.

Regarding Pedro's way of selling this product, there are some phrases that stand out a bit:
"I am truly excited to make the following offer available just for PedrosBoard members and friends."
"I've been working on a new and very affordable , easy to use, OBD-II Diagnostic Tool for Porsche."
"This new tool will be sold for $250.00.
I think I'll call it the TechnOBD-II Diagnostic Tool."

These are all sentences that lead you to believe that this is an entirely new product, developed by Pedro himself and sold at a bargain price. If it actually is a rebranded product, previously created by someone else, this is what I would personally consider false marketing.

I think particlewave has a very valid point.

I wish I too was 37 and retired. Alas, I'm 45 and still working... :P

Well, seems Pedro deemed you unworthy, so seems you two are even.

Do you or this Pedro guy own any cats? If so, I'd like to weigh in......

I've got one question. Did Pedro at any point advertise this on the 986 forum? If not what caused the wrath of our retired hero?

Lol. Look at me!! I'm 37 and retired! Nice infomercial. Boy, I wish I was you..:rolleyes:

One man's quest I guess. Is the hill you want to die on? Some almost nobody's website? Isn't there a pot hole in your town you could lobby to have filled? An intersection that needs a stop sign? I think this board got your messages, from Pedro to look at me I'm retired at 37. Oh, you're the engineer. Yes, we know you're quite something. All us lowly rats will be at work today while you wax your car and find internet justice for us all.

Rebranding? See it all the time. Dozens of boilers use the EXACT same heat exchanger, put a different color jacket on it, and call it Triangle or HTP or Munchkin and so on. NOBODY boasts about the Giovani heat exchanger. They ALL brag it's their own. Now, they do say they "developed the boiler" and "created it to meet our high standards" and so on, but they never credit the mfg or inventor of that heat exchanger.

Yes, this Pedro guy went too far. He developed zero. His description was misleading. The correct approach to what he's doing is the Trader Joes approach. The "we searched the world and brought you the best product we could find" approach is honest, then them rebranding to their trade name isn't any big deal. Trader Joes won't tell you where they buy those chocolate / peanut butter cups...or who actually makes them so I can buy them cheaper.

PW...you obviously have some issues with rebranding products
 

...at least assuming that Pedro is doing so. If you have so much free time on your hands, why don't you go after Porsche and their reboxed products like I suggested...you claim it is unethical?

In the evidence that was submitted, I do not see any lies...careful marketing verbage perhaps. There is nothing wrong with trying to make money, not everything has to be a free DIY and Pedro IMO has done more than his fair share to support the 986 community with the DIY and instructional information on his website. FWIW I have never met, spoke with or purchased anything from Pedro so I have no reason for bias.

I apologize as I must have got you mixed up with someone else on here that was selling the projector light kits or something similar.

I am not sure why you have such a Vendetta against the guy and why would you follow his board and postings if you do not like what he sells, his business practices, etc.?

You are completely correct in that there is nothing wrong with making money. However, I would like to point out the sentences quoted below, that may very well be considered lies and not "marketing verbage".
"I've been working on a new and very affordable , easy to use, OBD-II Diagnostic Tool for Porsche."
No, he did not. He might have been working on finding a new diagnostic tool. There is a difference.
"I think I'll call it the TechnOBD-II Diagnostic Tool."
Rebranding is fine, but combined with the previous quote, this creates the apperance that this product is entirely new and has never been on the market before.

Just like you, I have never dealt with Pedro. I've read a couple of his articles and have found them to be quite useful. I still think that this is dishonest. Pedro might very well be a great guy, who was overly enthusiastic and made an honest mistake. The correct way of handling this is to simply say "You're right. I made a mistake and I will correct it." Then this would not be an issue.

free Pedro
 

What about his website? No charge for all that free help. Also I was at Sebring last year and I was talking to a random person that lived in his area. I asked if he new Pedro?He lit up and said oh yea!When I first got the car and moved here I had an after hour problem and Pedro opened up and helped me for at least 2 hours and insisted NO CHARGE. Did you know he only works on 1 car at a time. Maybe he said those things out of excitement and he truly was working on it. Pedro does not strike me as the deceitful type. Call him he will answer. No dodging calls or screening. I know where he is and what he looks like. Particle wave......I feel you have to much time on your hands. Get whatever part you want from Pedro and I will pay the difference. With all the ripoff sites find another to point fingers at. I will buy the tool from Pedro but if I tell him I only need it for 1 time he would just loan it. This is my first and only Forum, never did like all the trash that gets talked from a keyboard somewhere in the U.S. Shoot, Particle doesnt even list a state.

All right, all right, then I'll watch "Tombstone" instead.:cheers:

Well said timco.