Particle isn't questioning Pedro as a person. He is just saying that his wording is deceitful and misleading. These 2 things are not mutually exclusive here.

I respect both Particlewave and PPBON, one does work for others out of the goodness of his heart and the other is trying to run a business to survive and also does many things above and beyond other vendors, so both are openly sharing their enthusiasm and knowledge with us forum members.

For that we are all grateful and can accept each for just following their nature.

No need to be harsh about it, but if there are some value added features of the Pedro version I'd love to hear about it, otherwise I can't fault a vendor for collecting useful tools for specialty cars on his site and charging an average price for those that don't want to search high and low for the absolute best deal.

So with a cheapo OBDII reader at $30 and the Durametric at $287 we have this TechnoOBDII at $199.

A comparison of features between these 3 would be just what we need to make our own educated decisions so we can buy the right tool for the job.

I almost hate to mention it, but in the spirit of competition and capitalism, perhaps evaluating some of the Knockoff products would be useful as well since there is a lot of misinformation about what they can and cannot do.

As far as marketing claims go, I stopped believing in all that Jibber Jabber when I was 8 and had saved up 1,000's of Popsicle Pete coupons so I could get a really cool gift.
Now I only judge a products claims on consumer reports which is why a friendly forum like this is so awesome.

Re-branding costs money. Personal customer support costs time and adds value. The statements in his forum may be a bit overblown for my taste, but that's marketing. Hardly constitutes fraud or an attempt to rip anyone off imho.
Anyone here have one of these? Is there ANY difference from the generic product? I see iCarsoft PORII selling for a bit over $190 on Amazon and it has a bad review of the seller's customer service.
Thanks PW for all you contribute to the forum, but this crusade may not be worth your effort. Maybe go on decaf for a few days, then read through it all again. ;)

I am not passing judgement one way or another on this topic other than the way Pedro promoted it MAY have been a little misleading.

First of all, Particlewave DOES NOT sell replacement headlights. He has graciously provided a service to install them in your lights should you not want to do them yourself and has posted very detailed instructions including his learned tips and tricks. The projectors you are thinking about are manufactured by Nine8Six.

Second, if you read Pedro's "Ad", it states that he is looking for buyers so he can can do a bulk purchase.

Third, as someone that works for a company that does re-branding on some of their products, I am somewhat familiar with the re-branding process. Pedro is buying the units at a discount, so his profit should be more than just the difference from what he sells them for to what "retail" is from the manufacturer. That is how re-branding works, you negotiate a price with the manufacturer and go from there. I highly doubt he is paying retail and marking it up from there. Again, that is why he was has asking for firm orders from people. His exact wording was "I'll need a firm order - no promises" That right there is saying he is looking it buy a quantity at a discount and sell them at a markup with little or no risk, nor any inventory carrying cost

If Pedro was selling then at the same price as the manufacturer, I don't think this thread would have happened at all. Instead, Pedro chose to mark it up over retail and maybe mislead a little about its capabilities and definitely mislead about who developed it and what it was.

I do think that Pedro does generally provide good and helpful information on his website and from what I have read from others is a good guy that is more than willing to help others at no cost to them.

Is he or anyone entitled to sell whatever they want at any price, absolutely! Do you have to buy it, no. In this case, IMHO, he did get caught (?) maybe taking advantage of some that are not as well informed. His response was also poor and perhaps he could have nipped this in the bud with a better response.

IMHO ParticleWave saw something he felt was wrong and taking advantage of people and pointed it out. Don't shoot the messenger

How did he mislead about it capabilities? Does it not do what he claims?
 

Icarsoft or whatever brand it was, for all we know were the first to the party to "brand" the product and bring it to market...do we know they developed it?

PW went far beyond just stating his feelings about the product when he started questioning his business practices (if you do not sell something for a profit...why sell at all?) and continued on with his comments about the light kits and products he thought were inferior....that is where it crossed into some sort of personal beef.

People make mistakes...can you fault Pedro when PW cannot see his own?

there is a big difference between "making a profit" and gouging. His point on $200 HID upgrade kits is very valid. You can buy similar kits all over the place for well under $100. Hell, there are places that will sell them around $100 installed! Sorry, but that is price gouging

Great news...
 

Great news...the retired, boy-genius PM'd me from his van down by the river.

Seems he doesn't handle criticism very well, especially when his true motives are exposed.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1461772222.jpg

I was trying to think of a response last night and this takes the words out of my mouth!

Timco, you have a way of lowering the rhetoric temperature like no one else.

Now about that rear fog light issue . . . . .

Seems like Pedro explained in another thread. This actually is a further development of the iCarsoft product.

Skickat från min HTC One M9 via Tapatalk

Thanks for the replies, guys.

As I stated, I fully encourage everyone to gather all information available to make an informed decision.

I certainly could have approached it differently, but as I said, I tried the nice and polite approach but he chose to flat out ignore my questions. So, I started this thread...

Timco - I'm sorry that you're pissed that I'm retired, but you can be, too. Just do a little reading everyday on investing. Anyone willing to learn can do it. I wasn't bragging, simply replying to a personal attack by papasmurf suggesting that I know nothing about economics. That's kind of my bread and butter. ;)

Maybe I'm wrong, but where is your website helping out fellow Boxster owners?

I believe you picked a fight with the wrong guy, Pedro has done quite a bit to help out the Boxster community, my 2 cents.

Here's your change, coreseller ($0.02).

That's about the answer I expected...........:rolleyes:

All I did was put the information out there. If you want to defend a liar, that's your decision. I have no beef with him, I just don't like liars.

I've said all I wanted to say on the subject. You defenders can keep the posts coming because every time you do, you promote my original post and help others through exposure. Not many read past the first post, anyway. ;)

Thanks! :D

You've quite a ways to go before you should be at "the big boy table".

My 2 cents since you tossed them back my way.


My Only Edit...............I don't have a dog in this fight at all but Particlewave, the way in which you chose to make this dispute with Pedro public Really Sux, it is VERY unbecoming regardless of what you say your reasons are.

PW,
I'm considering purchasing a new Boxster but all the dealers I visit quote prices for the EXACT same car. How can that be fair?

I'd appreciate it if you'd go give them crap for me.

Retirement is about perspective.

He retired to MO. Heck, my family out there could retire on spare change found at the park when land is $5k / acre.

Or I can move to MO. But I would rather live in other places, so I may need to work a few more years. We are invested, thanks. Why would I be pissed about some internet nobody again? It's annoying, not upsetting.

Wow, particlewave and Pedro have been very helpful to me, perhaps not directly but reading some of their diy's, like the multiple stuff in Pedro's website, or the keyless entry hack or headlight stuff from particlewave.

I hope that everything resolves for the good of everybody around here as we need you guys both.

The most coherent response yet.

PS I have never seen Pedro toss a negative post out there. That speaks volumes. I wish I could say the same lol.

I'm so tired of this self proclaimed protector of the masses calling people LIARS with out an ounce of hard proof, just assumptions , and you know what the say about them. This is a prime example

This is my last post he already cost me a lot more than the $20 I could have saved in my time. while this is fun
I'm done!

Yep we could, let just start by not calling each other liars to begin with.

Sorry, I don't know how to clip a youtube video directly on here. As Rodney would say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

Well now there's a stupid question. Particlewave helps anyone who asks. He knows more about our cars electrical systems than anyone outside the Porsche factory and offers the info freely and quickly. Anyone stupid enough to question that does not warrant a response from him.

Great Reply Lol, too bad you nor PW have addressed the question in any manner.

PW may indeed be a wealth of info, but I dare think of his response to a similar attack (or "Calling Out") as his thread initially titled asked.

Very Lame reply Chris, you can do better........:)

I get what you're saying...but I think it would have to be tesla advertising a Boxster with tesla badges marked up to 125k for this argument to hold merit.

No stance either way. Just adding in some perspective.

I'm curious what you have ever done to contribute positively around here? You've already chased away one member with your attacks.

When I didn't read his last 3 messages wining about something, he posted rude crap to my message board which I replied to. I had to ask staff AGAIN to get this guy out of my IM and off my messages. I won't let him pull a KRAM on me. It bothers him to no end.

Just wrote this on the other thread on this issue:

Two good people, obviously have differences in their opinions. I won't agree or disagree with anyone, but there's some valid points from both.

Pedro valid point
I agree with Pedro in that he has re-branded a product and decided to sell it under his name. People do it all the time, and as a trusted member, it gives people peace of mind that when they buy a product from him (with a known reputation of helping others), they're getting a good product. Even if he wants to put a little mark up on it, it's up to him as, like said, people do it all the time.

Particlewave valid point
I agree with Particle wave in that re-branding was never the big problem. Telling everyone it's essentially new and improved is a problem, but raising the price from $20 to $200 is a serious problem. Totally unacceptable. Unless the product has changes, like Pedro has stated in the other thread.

I've never dealt with Pedro but I've used his guides, which as we all know are free of charge to view. This in my books makes him quite a respectable person. I've dealt with Particlewave a few times and he's been incredibly helpful, saving my ass a few times and recording a how-to video especially for a problem I had. Not many people would go out of the way to do that for a single individual.

Both have points, but both need to calm down a little (no disrespect to either). Apologies for sitting on the fence but I'd rather not take sides, as they're both good people :)

I think what needs to happen is for an administrator to delete the threads, and to send a PM to each one recommending them to keep their confrontations to themselves.

Well... I've read every thread and every post on this 'issue' and I just don't understand what the fuzz is all about.

It might be that I am on the other side of the ocean and that smokin' pot is legal where I live, but I see a lot of this goin' on:

http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/...2_16x9_992.jpg

I agree - it has gotten out of hand on both threads.

Is there any information on how this is different from the original? Or what Pedro contributed to the design/mods? Even packaging and documentation could add value.

I see a reference to another thread...where is it?

Mike, see here http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/61399-i-dont-negotiate-terrorists.html

A Psitive suggestion that went unnoticed
 

JB said: "So with a cheapo OBDII reader at $30 and the Durametric at $287 we have this TechnoOBDII at $199.

A comparison of features between these 3 would be just what we need to make our own educated decisions so we can buy the right tool for the job.
Now that would help many of us who may find the Durametric +cable a bit expensive or way beyond our technical skills to use?
How about throwing in to the comparison some of the other Smartphone compatible systems?
That comparison would be a gracious way for Particleboard to demonstrate contrition?

This is just too funny:cheers:

There is alot of this going on and I wish it would stop. Both on this forum (only recently) and in the U.S. If it gets really bad I have dual citzenship and I may need to move back to Europe. Right now I am confident it will be okay. I really like this forum and the U.S. and plan on staying.