Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-25-2016, 11:29 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
99 2.5 Sleeve question

So I'm looking to buy a very, very clean '99 Silver on Red box. The car is immaculate, has traces of new car smell, and runs wonderfully. Everything works, and the car drives like butter. I have a pending appointment to get a PPI. It's a 99 so the IMS is less of an issue (due to dual row bearing).

To sleep easy, I will probably install a IMS guardian (it seems like it could be a good safety device for any engine really) as relatively cheap insurance. Clutch and Trans seem totally fine, with the clutch having strong bite. Zero smoke on startup. No weird noises from a cold start.

That brings me to the porosity problem of some of the late 98 early 99 M96 blocks. This car was built in 12/98, putting it unequivocally in the range of the reject blocks which were allegedly put back on the line with sleeve retrofits. I've read that most
of the bad examples of this retrofit failed before 10,000 miles. This car has 44,000 and seems to run perfectly. But if it does fail, there is likely less warning than even the IMS, and it would be just as catastrophic.

What do you guys suppose the odds of a sleeve failure in this 99 box are? And, importantly, is the sleeve-retrofit block something that a PPI can reveal, or is it only known after opening the engine?

I really want the car. It's the perfect color combo, and I instantly was enamored by the way it drove. But my head is issuing strong orders to be cautious.

Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 11:50 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,160
There is no way to know if the engine is sleeved without at least pulling the heads off.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 12:30 PM   #3
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,274
Garage
Welcome to the forum! In here you will find every topic covered. Search will yield many hours of all sorts of great info covered many times usually. Try not to get sucked into the nightmarish multiple modes of catastrophic failure that are legendary in their overblown fervor. This car saved Porsche! There are boatloads of them out there running with owners blissfully ignorant of the scare topics. If the PPI comes back favorably then by all means buy and drive it! Yes the car MUST be maintained, search oil and spin on filters and go from there. IMHO I personally see no reason to buy a Guardian to be informed that my engine is junk, Once the Guardian picks up particles it is already too late. Hell in Cali we live life on the edge of the San Andreas fault!! Enjoy all you can!
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 12:43 PM   #4
There Is No Substitute.
 
rick3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,129
Garage
I have not heard of anyone (online at least) experiencing a slipped sleeve failure for several years, but that is purely anecdotal. My '99, was manufactured 01/99, which also puts in the range of manufacture dates that may be affected by slipped sleeve failure. Currently approaching 100k miles, knock on wood.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
rick3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 02:19 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
I contacted Bauer Porsche in Oakland for a PPI and they quoted me like $260. They also said a clutch change with flywheel would be $4500. Both of those numbers seem a little high to me. Any Bay Area people have a favorite indie?
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 08:29 PM   #6
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit_RE View Post
I contacted Bauer Porsche in Oakland for a PPI and they quoted me like $260. They also said a clutch change with flywheel would be $4500. Both of those numbers seem a little high to me. Any Bay Area people have a favorite indie?
$260 is reasonable for a dealer PPI. Indie should be a little cheaper. But what really matters is that the person who does the inspection knows what they're doing and $100 either way shouldn't make a big difference.

$4,500 for a clutch and flywheel is highway robbery. Check with a reputable indie and you should be able to save $1000.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 08:53 PM   #7
There Is No Substitute.
 
rick3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,129
Garage
100% agree with thstone. The PPI is on the high end, but reasonable. The clutch is way too high, I paid less than half that.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
rick3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 10:30 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
It seemed a bit high.

If I had the space and tools, I would love to do the work myself. I come from the Mazda RX-7 world (and Merkur XR4ti world before that!) so it will be nice to own a car that parts, however expensive, actually exist for.
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2016, 07:13 AM   #9
2003 S, Arctic Silver, M6
 
paulofto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 1,040
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit_RE View Post
I contacted Bauer Porsche in Oakland for a PPI and they quoted me like $260. They also said a clutch change with flywheel would be $4500. Both of those numbers seem a little high to me. Any Bay Area people have a favorite indie?
The clutch job sounds way too high. I am taking my '03 S to a local indy shop tomorrow for clutch, flywheel, RMS & an LN IMS retrofit bearing and I have been quoted $4,400 Canadian. Thats about $3,400 US at current exchange rates
paulofto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2016, 07:57 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
Without revealing too much about this car in particular, whats the range of a reasonable price for a 99 Box with 44k original miles and a new top?

As I mentioned, it is cosmetically pristine, and I'm assuming (pending PPI) it to be close to mechanically pristine as well. It's silver with a red interior and a 5 speed manual. I'm not super familiar with the Porsche options list so I don't think I can recite if it's loaded or not. Has a CD player? lol
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 10:35 AM   #11
Registered User
 
cornontherob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 273
Garage
I would still go for an IMS retrofit. Dual row doesn't have any more durability than single row from what I've heard.
cornontherob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 10:55 AM   #12
There Is No Substitute.
 
rick3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,129
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornontherob View Post
I would still go for an IMS retrofit. Dual row doesn't have any more durability than single row from what I've heard.
That is incorrect, despite what the people selling the retrofits will tell you. The likelihood of dual row failure is about the same as any other car. There is a reason the class action lawsuit did not include MY's with the dual row IMS. The lawsuit even cited estimated failure rates, with a dual row failure rate of 1% and a single row failure rate of 8%.

Lots of information on this, and people should make up their own mind, and do what they feel is necessary for their own peace of mind. But the dual row has no where near the same risk of failure as the "resigned" single row IMS.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
rick3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 03:20 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
I called two additional shops to get a PPI price. $340 and $320. And I thought the original $260 was high....
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2016, 04:03 PM   #14
There Is No Substitute.
 
rick3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,129
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit_RE View Post
I called two additional shops to get a PPI price. $340 and $320. And I thought the original $260 was high....
Welcome to the wonderful world of Porsche ownership!
This is why a lot of us do our own regular maintenance, I was once quoted $380 for an oil change.
__________________
1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
rick3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2016, 08:31 AM   #15
Shacky
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 184
I bought a '99 last Spring with 74K (now 77K). Previous owner was great with maintenance and put on spin oil filter and dual mufflers - what a sweet sound!

I haven't checked build date but plan to drive it as long as I can as is. Thinking water pump may be most important to replace. And I want to clean out the radiators when I get time.

Last edited by shacky; 04-29-2016 at 02:34 PM.
shacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2016, 11:34 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
Finally found a decent rate, and it's close by with great reviews. $165 for the PPI. Scheduled for next thursday. If it all check out, I'll have a Porsche next weekend.
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2016, 10:10 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
So. I bought it.







I'm thinking I'd like to do a few mods. I'd like it slightly lower (maybe euro-spec suspension would suffice) and I'd like a wheel/tire setup somewhere between factory and the original concept car. I also want to do headers and a catback, but that might cause smog issues....but i have 2 years until I need to smog again...

What do you guys think of these ESM wheels?




I like that they are essentially a 3-piece version of the factory wheels. I'd love to paint the centers either grey or a subtle bronze as the '93 show car. Those wheels with a subtle ride height reduction and I think the car would look stunning.
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2016, 10:41 AM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 95
Great looking car! So what were you able to buy it for (price)
brewerbry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2016, 12:26 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 39
$11.5k @ 44,000 miles.

Mechanic said it was basically flawless.
Spirit_RE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2016, 10:50 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 52
Great looking car! Now drive it like you stole it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

__________________
2000 Boxster S 6 speed Guards Red
AaronPDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page