99 2.5 Sleeve question

[Spirit_RE]

So I'm looking to buy a very, very clean '99 Silver on Red box. The car is immaculate, has traces of new car smell, and runs wonderfully. Everything works, and the car drives like butter. I have a pending appointment to get a PPI. It's a 99 so the IMS is less of an issue (due to dual row bearing).

To sleep easy, I will probably install a IMS guardian (it seems like it could be a good safety device for any engine really) as relatively cheap insurance. Clutch and Trans seem totally fine, with the clutch having strong bite. Zero smoke on startup. No weird noises from a cold start.

That brings me to the porosity problem of some of the late 98 early 99 M96 blocks. This car was built in 12/98, putting it unequivocally in the range of the reject blocks which were allegedly put back on the line with sleeve retrofits. I've read that most
of the bad examples of this retrofit failed before 10,000 miles. This car has 44,000 and seems to run perfectly. But if it does fail, there is likely less warning than even the IMS, and it would be just as catastrophic.

What do you guys suppose the odds of a sleeve failure in this 99 box are? And, importantly, is the sleeve-retrofit block something that a PPI can reveal, or is it only known after opening the engine?

I really want the car. It's the perfect color combo, and I instantly was enamored by the way it drove. But my head is issuing strong orders to be cautious.

[JFP in PA]

There is no way to know if the engine is sleeved without at least pulling the heads off.

[911monty]

Welcome to the forum! In here you will find every topic covered. Search will yield many hours of all sorts of great info covered many times usually. Try not to get sucked into the nightmarish multiple modes of catastrophic failure that are legendary in their overblown fervor. This car saved Porsche! There are boatloads of them out there running with owners blissfully ignorant of the scare topics. If the PPI comes back favorably then by all means buy and drive it! Yes the car MUST be maintained, search oil and spin on filters and go from there. IMHO I personally see no reason to buy a Guardian to be informed that my engine is junk, Once the Guardian picks up particles it is already too late. Hell in Cali we live life on the edge of the San Andreas fault!! Enjoy all you can!

[rick3000]

I have not heard of anyone (online at least) experiencing a slipped sleeve failure for several years, but that is purely anecdotal. My '99, was manufactured 01/99, which also puts in the range of manufacture dates that may be affected by slipped sleeve failure. Currently approaching 100k miles, knock on wood.

[Spirit_RE]

I contacted Bauer Porsche in Oakland for a PPI and they quoted me like $260. They also said a clutch change with flywheel would be $4500. Both of those numbers seem a little high to me. Any Bay Area people have a favorite indie?

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Spirit_RE

I contacted Bauer Porsche in Oakland for a PPI and they quoted me like $260. They also said a clutch change with flywheel would be $4500. Both of those numbers seem a little high to me. Any Bay Area people have a favorite indie?

$260 is reasonable for a dealer PPI. Indie should be a little cheaper. But what really matters is that the person who does the inspection knows what they're doing and $100 either way shouldn't make a big difference.

$4,500 for a clutch and flywheel is highway robbery. Check with a reputable indie and you should be able to save $1000.

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by Spirit_RE

I contacted Bauer Porsche in Oakland for a PPI and they quoted me like $260. They also said a clutch change with flywheel would be $4500. Both of those numbers seem a little high to me. Any Bay Area people have a favorite indie?

The clutch job sounds way too high. I am taking my '03 S to a local indy shop tomorrow for clutch, flywheel, RMS & an LN IMS retrofit bearing and I have been quoted $4,400 Canadian. Thats about $3,400 US at current exchange rates

[rick3000]

100% agree with thstone. The PPI is on the high end, but reasonable. The clutch is way too high, I paid less than half that.

[Spirit_RE]

It seemed a bit high.

If I had the space and tools, I would love to do the work myself. I come from the Mazda RX-7 world (and Merkur XR4ti world before that!) so it will be nice to own a car that parts, however expensive, actually exist for.

[Spirit_RE]

Without revealing too much about this car in particular, whats the range of a reasonable price for a 99 Box with 44k original miles and a new top?

As I mentioned, it is cosmetically pristine, and I'm assuming (pending PPI) it to be close to mechanically pristine as well. It's silver with a red interior and a 5 speed manual. I'm not super familiar with the Porsche options list so I don't think I can recite if it's loaded or not. Has a CD player? lol

[cornontherob]

I would still go for an IMS retrofit. Dual row doesn't have any more durability than single row from what I've heard.

[rick3000]

Originally Posted by cornontherob

I would still go for an IMS retrofit. Dual row doesn't have any more durability than single row from what I've heard.

That is incorrect, despite what the people selling the retrofits will tell you. The likelihood of dual row failure is about the same as any other car. There is a reason the class action lawsuit did not include MY's with the dual row IMS. The lawsuit even cited estimated failure rates, with a dual row failure rate of 1% and a single row failure rate of 8%.

Lots of information on this, and people should make up their own mind, and do what they feel is necessary for their own peace of mind. But the dual row has no where near the same risk of failure as the "resigned" single row IMS.

[Spirit_RE]

I called two additional shops to get a PPI price. $340 and $320. And I thought the original $260 was high....

[rick3000]

Originally Posted by Spirit_RE

I called two additional shops to get a PPI price. $340 and $320. And I thought the original $260 was high....

Welcome to the wonderful world of Porsche ownership!
This is why a lot of us do our own regular maintenance, I was once quoted $380 for an oil change.

[shacky]

I bought a '99 last Spring with 74K (now 77K). Previous owner was great with maintenance and put on spin oil filter and dual mufflers - what a sweet sound!

I haven't checked build date but plan to drive it as long as I can as is. Thinking water pump may be most important to replace. And I want to clean out the radiators when I get time.

[Spirit_RE]

Finally found a decent rate, and it's close by with great reviews. $165 for the PPI. Scheduled for next thursday. If it all check out, I'll have a Porsche next weekend.

[Spirit_RE]

So. I bought it.







I'm thinking I'd like to do a few mods. I'd like it slightly lower (maybe euro-spec suspension would suffice) and I'd like a wheel/tire setup somewhere between factory and the original concept car. I also want to do headers and a catback, but that might cause smog issues....but i have 2 years until I need to smog again...

What do you guys think of these ESM wheels?




I like that they are essentially a 3-piece version of the factory wheels. I'd love to paint the centers either grey or a subtle bronze as the '93 show car. Those wheels with a subtle ride height reduction and I think the car would look stunning.

[brewerbry]

Great looking car! So what were you able to buy it for (price)

[Spirit_RE]

$11.5k @ 44,000 miles.

Mechanic said it was basically flawless.

[AaronPDX]

Great looking car! Now drive it like you stole it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk