Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2015, 07:18 PM   #1
Registered User
 
BIGJake111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Greenville, S.C.
Posts: 2,656
Garage
DieselGate

Worth discussion, curious of opinions from others.

BIGJake111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2015, 07:30 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
Posts: 73
Winterkorn will have a lot of time at home to spend with his kitty now yes?

My opinion... enthusiasts will take note but to the average person this is a blip on the radar. And enthusiasts won't much care because they're all trying to find a way to take the cats off their cars anyways.

Environmentalists will probably never consider a VW (or another VW), but that's about it. Other manufacturers are involved in loss of life situations and they don't seem to be suffering terribly poorly, so I can't see this one having a noteworthy long term effect. In the short term however VW is in for a rough ride with ambulance chasers, Governments, shareholders, and the list goes on.

The difference with this one is that it was pre-meditated. It will be interesting to continue to watch this play out.
Jim Rockford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2015, 07:34 PM   #3
I am my own mechanic....
 
Timco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,433
What's the real power / performance drop with the correct emissions controls?

Who said "well, you know what we can do to get around emissions.." and who said "do it..."?
__________________
'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
Timco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2015, 09:34 PM   #4
Registered User
 
nieuwhzn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 296
Garage
Something that hits the front page of the New York Times for a couple of days is not a 'blip on the radar'. I'm afraid that this will set back diesel cars in the US for quite a number of years.
nieuwhzn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 03:08 AM   #5
Registered User
 
flaps10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 430
Anyone who thinks this is unique to VW or diesels should buckle up.
flaps10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 03:25 AM   #6
WALDMEISTER
 
BRAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 972
Garage
That is Mr. Ferdinand Piëch btw. ...who had a huge battle with Mr. Winterkorn...trying to get rid of him a couple of months ago. Wasn't he promoting Mr. Müller as a successor at that time? I don't know

What strikes me is...the ICCT dropped the bomb right at the start of Europe's biggest automobile convention, IAA in Germany.

I wonder, i wonder...
well...authorities need to take a closer look at stock market transactions muhahahaha
__________________
Original Owner | PORSCHE Boxster 2.7L (MY01) | Seal Gray

Last edited by BRAN; 09-28-2015 at 05:20 AM.
BRAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 06:32 AM   #7
Registered User
 
BIGJake111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Greenville, S.C.
Posts: 2,656
Garage
DieselGate

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAN View Post
That is Mr. Ferdinand Piëch btw. ...who had a huge battle with Mr. Winterkorn...trying to get rid of him a couple of months ago. Wasn't he promoting Mr. Müller as a successor at that time? I don't know

What strikes me is...the ICCT dropped the bomb right at the start of Europe's biggest automobile convention, IAA in Germany.

I wonder, i wonder...
well...authorities need to take a closer look at stock market transactions muhahahaha

Exactly what I thought.

It was over piechs statements about winterkorn and muller that resulted in his loss of position.



That being said I think the dieselgate is going to involve many more cars, that being said I honestly think the company was looking out for the consumer (as that affects their bottom line)

TDI engines are known to be fuel efficient and provide good performance at a low price. I think cheating was the only way for them to provide all of these at once. Immoral, yes. However it would be unneeded if the gov didn't regulate what companies sell and we buy anyways. These cars are no dirtier than most cars sold 10 years ago to my understanding and are entirely acceptable in Europe, and I can tell you right now they have nothing on a bro truck.

I guess let the free market decide if they want a dirty diesel or not. No need for the gov to get their hands in it..... Or which octane I can buy... Or if corn is in my fuel...

Get off my lawn.
BIGJake111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 07:19 AM   #8
Registered User
 
BIGJake111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Greenville, S.C.
Posts: 2,656
Garage
"If I crank up my 2-stroke weed-whacker and chainsaw and do yard maintenance for a few days each year... I’ve likely polluted much more than a modern VW TDI pollutes in it’s lifetime. The current crisis is being reported as if VW was committing a significant crime against nature (pollution), when in fact the real crime here is little more than deception.

The TDI’s biggest crime was that it traded a tiny amount of pollution for a significant amount of resource conservation. When you advance fuel injection timing in a diesel, you get higher peak cylinder pressures which extract more energy from a given amount of fuel. As peak cylinder pressures increased, more NOx was formed than the EPA/CARB allowed. So this tiny bit of pollution was just a trade: the TDI drivers have been sending fewer dollars to oil barons in the middle east.

NOx emissions are complicated, and in certain exceptions to the rule, adding NOx to the atmosphere can actually increase the natural decline of ozone/smog. If pollution is created predominantly by gasoline vehicles, there is a pattern of smog worsening on the weekends, presumably because big trucks that emit NOx are not running. The EPA actually acknowledges this fact, appropriately referred to as “The Weekend Effect”

(NO + O3 ___> NO2 + O2)

“In a city centre for example, where NOx concentrations are high, a reduction in VOC is likely to be more effective in reducing photo-oxidant concentrations than cutting NOx, and the centre is said to be ‘VOC-limited’. Conversely in the surrounding countryside, where the NOx concentration is much lower (Fig 2), cutting NOx emissions is likely to be more effective than reducing VOC emissions; it is thus ‘NOx-limited’. “

-http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld...

The amount of NOx emitted by these “dirty” VW diesels is tremendously less than that allowed in diesel vehicles produced in 2005, and thousands of times cleaner than that of a diesel from the 70’s. The outrage should be over VW’s ethics, not the pollution (which is negligible. The EPA limit for NOx emission is so close to zero, that multiplying the permissible emissions leaves us still pretty darn close to zero.)

The EPA policies were flawed from the beginning. Instead of cracking down on the biggest vehicles traveling the longest distances, they cracked down on us at home. It would have been more effective to target larger polluters: large transport trucks, trains, ships, tractors/combines, and old machinery. Offering farmers, truckers, construction workers, fishermen, and other commercial industries subsidies to retrofit old equipment with additional pollution control, or subsidies to purchase low emission commercial equipment.

Our beautiful Animas river was destroyed by EPA negligence at best.. but powerful and obvious motives exist which point to a conspiracy to acquire Superfund money (which they did receive). I know this looks like a non-sequitur, but the irony is thick here. Why are we allowing an incompetent organization that destroyed large swaths of the environment (and does not have any way to pay penalties itself) to decide how much money to collect from others who have done an infinitesimal amount of damage to the environment?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-1... "

Not my words but I found this online, I dislike the medias focus on this issue and their click bate titles that make out like the cars are pouring cyanide out their exhausts.
BIGJake111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 08:00 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 608
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaps10 View Post
Anyone who thinks this is unique to VW or diesels should buckle up.
Didn't one of the big rig manufacturers get busted doing something similiar? Software Coding to fool the emissions.
BFeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 12:04 PM   #10
Registered User
 
EJ-Fresno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 517
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAN View Post
That is Mr. Ferdinand Piëch btw. ...who had a huge battle with Mr. Winterkorn...trying to get rid of him a couple of months ago. Wasn't he promoting Mr. Müller as a successor at that time? I don't know

What strikes me is...the ICCT dropped the bomb right at the start of Europe's biggest automobile convention, IAA in Germany.

I wonder, i wonder...
well...authorities need to take a closer look at stock market transactions muhahahaha
And don't forget that ICCT is funded by Climate Works, which itself is funded by Ford Foundation...
Too shady to be clean
__________________
2003 2.7 Boxster - Tiptronic - Carrera wheels - OBC - Red calipers - Cat pipes - Modified muffler - Rear speakers - K&N - Litronics
2006 V6 Mustang
2008 ML 350
EJ-Fresno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 12:06 PM   #11
Registered User
 
EJ-Fresno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 517
Garage
Anyway, who cares if VW tricked the emissions control?
Would you guys not buy a VW only because of this? Who buys cars according to their emissions? Except the Prius drivers
__________________
2003 2.7 Boxster - Tiptronic - Carrera wheels - OBC - Red calipers - Cat pipes - Modified muffler - Rear speakers - K&N - Litronics
2006 V6 Mustang
2008 ML 350
EJ-Fresno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 01:29 PM   #12
Registered User
 
lkchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieuwhzn View Post
I'm afraid that this will set back diesel cars in the US for quite a number of years.
For me what's killed it is the notion the adBlue fluid container has to take the place of spare tire storage.

My 2007 Merc doesn't have this and it started with 2009 models. Will never ever own a car with runflat tires installed.
__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
2001 Boxster
2007 GL320 CDI
3 BMW motorcycles
lkchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 05:41 PM   #13
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,429
Where was the EPA?

All of the other manufacturers selling diesel powered cars had to use urea injection to meet emissions - but not VW?

So their conclusion was that VW got it right while Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche all got it wrong?

__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2015, 10:29 PM   #14
Registered User
 
BIGJake111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Greenville, S.C.
Posts: 2,656
Garage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA
BIGJake111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2015, 07:17 PM   #15
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,429
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page