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Old 09-09-2015, 11:23 AM   #1
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981 the new 986 ?

Looking on Autotrader and other sites i am very surprised to see the large amount of 981 cars for sale . I have been on the lookout for a well optioned 987 mk2 S but they are rare birds compared to the 981 cars and the prices are still way up on them . It seems the 981 cars are dropping in price much more quickly than i would have thought . In another year or so you will base cars drop well below 40k . Will the 981 become the new 986 ?

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Old 09-09-2015, 12:18 PM   #2
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981 the new 986 ?

I bet people are just driving them a lot, what's the usual mileage? Not to mention I think there is a certain type of Porsche buyer that buys them new and sells them 2 years later to upgrade regardless of a new model available or not. Then people buy these low mileage practically new used cars and keep them for several years.

Even when looking at 986 car fax reports it seems that the first owners always have the cars sold by 2004 and then the second owner usually kept the car all the way to current or 2012 or so.

Point being I think most Porsche models go on sale a year or two after production then not again until maintenance is creeping up, most 987 cars are likely in this second extended ownership right now not to mention what I would assume we're slow sells during the recession recovery.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:30 PM   #3
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I'm hoping the 991 follows suit of the 996. I want to find a 50k miler for between 30 and 35k in a few years.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:39 PM   #4
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Any German car sold in the tens of thousands per year for many years will eventually become a $10-$15K car. The jury is still on the 981 being a very durable car. If experience is worth anything, the first 70K miles of my second gen powered 986 proved to be nearly bullet proof. That being said, if you can swing it, a CPO 981 S with an extended factory warranty is the way to go. Then sell the car before the warranty expires and repeat the process of squandering your finite retirement investments!
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:07 PM   #5
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not sure about other region but northeast had many many 24 or 30 month lease deals....these are probably what you're seeing.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:16 PM   #6
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Supply and demand... the 987.2 hit the mkt smack in the financial crisis. Sales during those yrs dropped to 10% of 2008 numbers (Cayman sales went from 16K to 1600 / yr). Add to it the 9a1 engine in the 987.2 and you have a desirable car in very low volume, so they'll hold their value. The 981 hit the mkt about the time the economy started to return, so sales are much higher. More 981s (lower S) to choose from, lower value. I've been amazed at the number of '14 Caymans on ebay. Seems like at least 1/3 of all Caymans listed are '14s.

I like the 981 Boxster but still haven't warmed up to the 981 Cayman.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:30 PM   #7
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A 987 mk2 with sports chono and PDK would be the most desirable to me but if the 981 heads down the slope it is going they will be hard to overlook as a second hand car buyer. Even if it is a base model . With PDK and sports chrono of course .
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Old 09-09-2015, 06:29 PM   #8
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I'm hoping the 991 follows suit of the 996. I want to find a 50k miler for between 30 and 35k in a few years.
996 dropped like a rock because of the headlights. They're selling for less than 987's right now. I don't think the 997 or 991 is going to drop as fast because they look much more modern than the 996.

I've even seen 996 turbos for under 40k

That would be a sweet ride! If you can get past the old looking headlights...
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:13 AM   #9
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996 dropped like a rock because of the headlights. They're selling for less than 987's right now. I don't think the 997 or 991 is going to drop as fast because they look much more modern than the 996.

I've even seen 996 turbos for under 40k

That would be a sweet ride! If you can get past the old looking headlights...
That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them. When the last round headlight 993 rolled off the assembly line Porsche could only muster ~1,600 sales in all of North America (!!!). That's just mind-boggling if you consider that was in the midst of the greatest bull market in anyone's life time. High rollers were buying two of everything except Carreras. The 996 shows up and sales literally blow the roof off the factory. The era of the mass produced Porsche had begun and ironically, mass produced Porsches simply hold no value no matter what they look like, modern or classic. The exception are those with limited production engines like the GT3/2. Put it this way, had the 996 been exactly like the 993 on the outside but with a water-cooled engine inside, it would still be selling cheap. And had that been the case I'm not so sure that 993 resale was be nearly what it is today because many first time buyers are simply after the look which would not be so limited in the market had the 993 gone into mass production with a water-cooled engine. But one has to ask would a 993 air-cooled or water-cooled sold as well as the 996's number in the early 2000's? I think its doubtful, beyond the niche traditionalist (the same ones pumping of air-cooled prices today) the broader market wanted something all new with a modern flair like the Boxster Concept car and the simultaneously developed 996. Either way today there simply are not enough first time buyers for used, out-of-warranty Porsches that require overpriced parts and specialized labor to soak up all that supply of a very successful 996 production run. Once they hear about "routine" $4k Clutch/IMS/RMS quotes they run

P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.

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Old 09-10-2015, 11:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Perfectlap View Post
P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.


But then wouldn't this happen?

http://youtu.be/_ldoGjqijCw

(You hit the nail on the head about simply over supply for a used high cost sports car, it has nothing to do with looks. If it's anything specific other than a culmination of the type of car it is and supply then it's the IMS hysteria.)
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:09 PM   #11
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That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them.
idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

Here

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But if you ask a Porsche enthusiast about the 996, you'll get this look, as if you're in the middle of a Mopar meet, and you just went up to some Dodge-loving, Barracuda-driving, Hemi-obsessed redneck and asked what he thinks about the PT Cruiser.

And I admit, Porsche enthusiasts have their reasons for hating the 996. For one thing, they hate the headlights, which did away with the traditional circular look in favor of an unusual new design that resembles a pre-schooler's misguided portrait of the family dog. They hate that it's water-cooled, not air-cooled like earlier models. And then there's the matter of the engine, namely the fact that — at any moment — it may catastrophically fail without warning.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/comments/2bihx3/why_does_no_one_like_the_996/

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The headlights are a problem. But it's not just that. See, back when they were developing the 996 they were also developing the new Boxster. In order to cut costs, they developed both to share a LOT of parts, including pretty much the whole front end.
This wouldn't have been a problem, but they unfortunately released the Boxster first. Then the "new" 911 followed. Every die-hard 911 fan was shocked to see the 911 look just like a "cheap" Boxster from the front.
If only they released the 996 first, THEN the Boxster, everything would have been OK. 911 die-hards would have said "oh, that's cute - the Boxster wants to be like our beloved 911! Awwww..." But they really screwed up the timing.
Plus, the fried egg headlight is just plain ugly.
Oh, and IMS bearing. Ooops.
I bought a 987 for almost triple the price of a 986 because I didn't like that the 986 headlights looked so old and I was trying to avoid most IMS issues.
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:12 PM   #12
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The 2006 987 has IMS issues does it not? They didn't do away with it until mid 2009...
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:09 PM   #13
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idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.
not popular? fried eggs by number of vehicles sold vs. round lights sold, was the most popular headlight in the history of Porsche up the point that they went back to round lights. When you're talking about the niche enthusiast crowd that insist on round headlights you're talking about a sliver of a sliver of Porsche ownership since the company's renaissance. Porsche wouldn't be selling 200K cars today from the time they barely sold 1,600 911's in North America if it were up to those purists. Actually if were up to them there might not even have been a Porsche left standing today.

As far as the IMS thing, that's a situation where people repeating misinformation is exponentially worse than the problem itself. Or YouTube bloggers and writers like Dutch Mandel who talk of m96 IMS issues to newbies without even a mention that for at least 6 years there's been a simple "day in the shop" fix that doesn't require even pulling the engine or simply an add on item when you do your clutch. According to our resident engine experts, the m97 engine in 987.1's is simply a glorified version of the 986 engine since 2000.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:13 PM   #14
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The 2006 987 has IMS issues does it not? They didn't do away with it until mid 2009...
A failed IMS on m97 engine is very rare. They went Rambo on the bearing and put in a non-replaceable unit that's sturdy. But they have failed on 987.1 Boxsters and Caymans.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:22 PM   #15
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A failed IMS on m97 engine is very rare. They went Rambo on the bearing and put in a non-replaceable unit that's sturdy. But they have failed on 987.1 Boxsters and Caymans.
Rare at this time....but who knows what they will be like once they start getting some mileage on them. A few more years will tell us a lot. Only sure thing is yes, go with a 2009+ (987.2) to avoid the IMS altogether.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:26 PM   #16
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But then wouldn't this happen?

http://youtu.be/_ldoGjqijCw

(You hit the nail on the head about simply over supply for a used high cost sports car, it has nothing to do with looks. If it's anything specific other than a culmination of the type of car it is and supply then it's the IMS hysteria.)
Hey racing cars do crazy things on racing tracks. But the fried egg lights GT1 LMP was the last Porsche to win the overall at the 24 Hours of Le Mans for nearly 16 years until the hybrid 919 (also without round lights) this year. For homologation they did sell the GT1 as a "911" for street use, but there was nothing really Carrera about it other than the 993 front end chassis. It was a mid-mounted water pumper.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:26 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=986_inquiry;465450]idk, most agree, it's the ugly non-traditional headlights. Porsche has had round and oval headlights forever, the fried egg was not popular. The well documented IMS problems didn't help things.

Not sure where you are getting 'most agree'. As PL said - a sliver of a sliver. Frankly, I think the headlights look great, especially if they are de-ambered and nice and clear. They look great and distinctive.

I do recognize now though that the 987's lights do look more modern...but that's because they are. Doesn't make the classic 986 lights any less attractive. Eventually the 987 lights might look old next to whatever comes next.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:29 PM   #18
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Rare at this time....but who knows what they will be like once they start getting some mileage on them. A few more years will tell us a lot. Only sure thing is yes, go with a 2009+ (987.2) to avoid the IMS altogether.
I think those Rambo bearings will outlast most of m97 engines. While any sealed bearing inside an engine without a direct oil feed does not address the issue of oil starvation and contamination, if you make the bearing tough enough it will stay together long enough for something else to go fist that takes down the engine.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:39 PM   #19
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Honestly 987.1 lights look very dated particularly when matched with some wheel options.

Litronics or a projector upgrade 986 can pass as a new design, and most definitely look more modern than something you'd find on most anything else.

What I find odd is that Porsche is moving away once again from round lights, everything is going for a carrera gt shape with a 4 light rectangle emphasis.

The 981 particularly with the spyder or gt4 nose looks exceptionally more square than typical Porsche design language, yet the rear still holds true.

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Old 09-10-2015, 02:49 PM   #20
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I think the 981 Boxster/Coxster is going to make everything before it look dated.

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/21/84/25/20150403/ob_5a4b63_porsche-boxster-spyder-ar.jpg

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