981 the new 986 ?

[papasmurf]

I think something that has not been mentioned is that the market for used cars and used sports cars in general is not what it used to be. People are much more likely to buy a SUV or truck over a sports car than they would have in years past especially if they can get a newer vehicle for the same price of the older used sports car. Sports cars are just not as desirable to today's buyers and the younger generation as they were in years past...people see success as an Escalade rolling on 26" wheels with 8 TV screens in it. Cars are easily replaceable appliances nowadays and many are okay with that.

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That's funny because the 996 was a progression (modern) while the 997 was regression (classic) to the original VW'esque round headlight. No question that the high fenders and round lights are the preference for many if not most, but the 996 is not cheap because of its looks. It's cheap because they sold so many of them. When the last round headlight 993 rolled off the assembly line Porsche could only muster ~1,600 sales in all of North America (!!!). That's just mind-boggling if you consider that was in the midst of the greatest bull market in anyone's life time. High rollers were buying two of everything except Carreras. The 996 shows up and sales literally blow the roof off the factory. The era of the mass produced Porsche had begun and ironically, mass produced Porsches simply hold no value no matter what they look like, modern or classic. The exception are those with limited production engines like the GT3/2. Put it this way, had the 996 been exactly like the 993 on the outside but with a water-cooled engine inside, it would still be selling cheap. And had that been the case I'm not so sure that 993 resale was be nearly what it is today because many first time buyers are simply after the look which would not be so limited in the market had the 993 gone into mass production with a water-cooled engine. But one has to ask would a 993 air-cooled or water-cooled sold as well as the 996's number in the early 2000's? I think its doubtful, beyond the niche traditionalist (the same ones pumping of air-cooled prices today) the broader market wanted something all new with a modern flair like the Boxster Concept car and the simultaneously developed 996. Either way today there simply are not enough first time buyers for used, out-of-warranty Porsches that require overpriced parts and specialized labor to soak up all that supply of a very successful 996 production run. Once they hear about "routine" $4k Clutch/IMS/RMS quotes they run :chicken:

P.S.
I'll take the fried egg headlights over round lights all day long. I just wish Porsche would have combined both fried egg headlights and high bulging fenders like on the GT1 LMP. That would have been a very exotic looking Carrera. One you could park next to any McLaren or Ferrari.

[Perfectlap]

^ That's so true. Convertible sports cars used to be "chick cars" 20 years ago... as in the the car every young woman dreamed of. Now young women dream about Range Rovers and Cayennes.

[RandallNeighbour]

In Houston, we spend 15% more on average for cars than other big cities in America according to sales report that came out a while back. No idea why!

I work in the posh Galleria area and it's all very expensive German coupes and sedans down here. What kills me is the 20-35 year old clerical ladies in my building who make $60k a year (max, some a lot lower according to my buddy in management at their company) at an oil company driving a new 5 series BMW (or a German SUV) on a 3 year lease, wearing $500 high heels and carrying a $1000 handbag. She looks rich and all she has is debt. But she looks rich to her friends and co-workers. It's the short-sighted stupidity of youth that isn't easily shaken off as people get older.

Conversely, the men and women in my building who drive Pcars (there's at least a dozen) do not seems to be posers. A few fellow Pcar drivers are my friends and they have a robust balance sheets and they are not pissing away their retirement to look rich. They do not turn over vehicles every couple of years either like the rich posers.

Our entire society is moving from ownership to renting personal use items as if they were a temporary service. Software is now sold as subscription based through the cloud. Cell phone "purchases" are now paid by the month so they can be upgraded frequently. We pay for TV reception. Call me an old fart, but all I see is a culture determined to live for today with few avoiding the trap of the ongoing monthly payment for most everything.

[EJ-Fresno]

Totally agree!
Doesn't matter anymore "who" you are, but rather "what" you are

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

In Houston, we spend 15% more on average for cars than other big cities in America according to sales report that came out a while back. No idea why!

I work in the posh Galleria area and it's all very expensive German coupes and sedans down here. What kills me is the 20-35 year old clerical ladies in my building who make $60k a year (max, some a lot lower according to my buddy in management at their company) at an oil company driving a new 5 series BMW (or a German SUV) on a 3 year lease, wearing $500 high heels and carrying a $1000 handbag. She looks rich and all she has is debt. But she looks rich to her friends and co-workers. It's the short-sighted stupidity of youth that isn't easily shaken off as people get older.

Conversely, the men and women in my building who drive Pcars (there's at least a dozen) do not seems to be posers. A few fellow Pcar drivers are my friends and they have a robust balance sheets and they are not pissing away their retirement to look rich. They do not turn over vehicles every couple of years either like the rich posers.

Our entire society is moving from ownership to renting personal use items as if they were a temporary service. Software is now sold as subscription based through the cloud. Cell phone "purchases" are now paid by the month so they can be upgraded frequently. We pay for TV reception. Call me an old fart, but all I see is a culture determined to live for today with few avoiding the trap of the ongoing monthly payment for most everything.

[jacabean]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

In Houston, we spend 15% more on average for cars than other big cities in America according to sales report that came out a while back. No idea why!

I work in the posh Galleria area and it's all very expensive German coupes and sedans down here. What kills me is the 20-35 year old clerical ladies in my building who make $60k a year (max, some a lot lower according to my buddy in management at their company) at an oil company driving a new 5 series BMW (or a German SUV) on a 3 year lease, wearing $500 high heels and carrying a $1000 handbag. She looks rich and all she has is debt. But she looks rich to her friends and co-workers. It's the short-sighted stupidity of youth that isn't easily shaken off as people get older.

Conversely, the men and women in my building who drive Pcars (there's at least a dozen) do not seems to be posers. A few fellow Pcar drivers are my friends and they have a robust balance sheets and they are not pissing away their retirement to look rich. They do not turn over vehicles every couple of years either like the rich posers.

Our entire society is moving from ownership to renting personal use items as if they were a temporary service. Software is now sold as subscription based through the cloud. Cell phone "purchases" are now paid by the month so they can be upgraded frequently. We pay for TV reception. Call me an old fart, but all I see is a culture determined to live for today with few avoiding the trap of the ongoing monthly payment for most everything.

sounds like a bunch of fake ass people i wouldn't bother to associate with .

[jacabean]

Originally Posted by jacabean

sounds like a bunch of fake ass people i wouldn't bother to associate with .

looks like these people are the reason for all the used 981s

[particlewave]

I have to agree with 986i...with the original halogen amber headlights, they are not attractive. My favorite comment from a buddy of mine was, "damn! I love this car! But, the headlights make it look like a cross-eyed, unloved stepchild", haha

Add some nice projectors, however...it completely transforms!
The way they follow the curves is just elegant! Look at the passenger side headlight in this pic. The curve of the fender is just sexy!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

Our entire society is moving from ownership to renting personal use items as if they were a temporary service. Software is now sold as subscription based through the cloud. Cell phone "purchases" are now paid by the month so they can be upgraded frequently. We pay for TV reception. Call me an old fart, but all I see is a culture determined to live for today with few avoiding the trap of the ongoing monthly payment for most everything.

AHNC...(All hat no cattle).

The interesting thing to me about your statement here is that the one thing they ought to be renting...namely their residence, in order to to have an adequate portion of their income left over each month to secure retirement income, is often the only debt they're serving towards eventual ownership 30 years later. The rationale for this is often the belief that its a great investment...but only if you are oblivious to all the other investments that could have been made with the delta between the rent these AHNC's were paying and the full costs of carrying a home for the lender. See the chart below where the bar for house prices fall..to the right...way right.
And since the only investment the average home owner makes is their home, that red bar becomes easy to understand.
Me personally, I'm leaning hard on the bars on the extreme left while avoiding any interest carrying debt...be it credit card, auto or mortgage.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by EJ-Fresno

Totally agree!
Doesn't matter anymore "who" you are, but rather "what" you are

Here in the Phoenix area the city of Scottsdale are full of these type of people and is the primary reason I refuse to live there. They make monthly payments so they can think they are better then you. I was with a few of the Scottsdale folks the other week and the topic of car payments came up and what they were paying is more then I pay in principle, interest, insurance and taxes on a rental property I have. They heard that and there was silence and dumbfounded looks. I guess they realized who had made the better decision.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

AHNC...(All hat no cattle).

The interesting thing to me about your statement here is that the one thing they ought to be renting...namely their residence, in order to to have an adequate portion of their income left over each month to secure retirement income, is often the only debt they're serving towards eventual ownership 30 years later. The rationale for this is often the belief that its a great investment...but only if you are oblivious to all the other investments that could have been made with the delta between the rent these AHNC's were paying and the full costs of carrying a home for the lender. See the chart below where the bar for house prices fall..to the right...way right.
And since the only investment the average home owner makes is their home, that red bar becomes easy to understand.
Me personally, I'm leaning hard on the bars on the extreme left while avoiding any interest carrying debt...be it credit card, auto or mortgage.

I love people that rent! I agree in many cases a house to live in is not a very good investment. But owning rentals if done right is very lucrative. Like almost any investment it's all about what you pay for it. While others were fearful to by houses it was a great time to buy them and rent. I purchased a few houses at the deeps of the housing market just on the basis of the immediate ROI, rents versus carrying cost figuring that appreciation may or may not come. Having said that I also invest heavily to the left of the table too. Here too wise timing of your investment can make a huge difference. Energy/oil right now is likely to fall in the category of wise time to invest in the near future.

[Perfectlap]

I picked up a distressed income property during the recent housing collapse (there will be other meltdowns...such is the nature of the securitization chain) but it has not come close to matching the performance of the left side of the table, particularly in IT in the same period of time. I've come to the conclusion that between hitching your car to the tail of U.S. corporate wealth and property whether income or primary residence, it's no contest for me. Corporations always finish first and more so going forward.

[Porsche9]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I picked up a distressed income property during the recent housing collapse (there will be other meltdowns...such is the nature of the securitization chain) but it has not come close to matching the performance of the left side of the table, particularly in IT in the same period of time. I've come to the conclusion that between hitching your car to the tail of U.S. corporate wealth and property whether income or primary residence, it's no contest for me. Corporations always finish first and more so going forward.

I can't complain. The properties I picked up in 2010 and 2011 have doubled in value and having only put down 10% that equals a 1000% capital gain in addition to the earnings from rent. Phoenix saw a big time over correction in real estate with values bottoming out in 2011 that helped and many big corporations took advantage of (Blackstone being one of them). In the same time "corporate" returns have done very well but none that I own have exceed this. Between careful investing and some luck the average Joe can do well. Certainly better to put your money to work then continuing to work for money at those corporations just to meet the monthly payments for things that make you look rich. That is why I drive a paid for 13 year old Boxster and a 8 year old Mini. I enjoy them as much as all of the bigger buck cars I've owned without the big purchase costs and killer depreciation. I look forward to purchasing a highly depreciated well cared for low milage 981S.