your oil filter preference

[911monty]

[QUOTE=Perfectlap;461259]Thanks! Do you have the FilterMags in there as pair or just one?

Perfectlap; I have only the one on my oil filter. I do not have the one for the transmission.

[Duezzer]

Just running an Mahle filter - Used Wix once but noticed it had a smaller filter medium -

May pick up some rare earth magnets - Say 100#+ pull and attach them to the filter housing

Should work like the Magnetic Drain Plug.

Might even pick up a magnetic drain plug in time as I don't think it would hurt anything.

Can someone explain why the use of the spin on is an upgrade - The last 3 vehicles that we have bought now have element type filters not spin ons

[911monty]

Took a picture for evidence (pics or didn't happen)! And to show what it looks like installed. I was wanting to leave magnet on filter until after I cut open to see the particles stuck to side of the canister, but that may not be possible.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by Duezzer

Just running an Mahle filter - Used Wix once but noticed it had a smaller filter medium -

May pick up some rare earth magnets - Say 100#+ pull and attach them to the filter housing

Should work like the Magnetic Drain Plug.

Might even pick up a magnetic drain plug in time as I don't think it would hurt anything.

Can someone explain why the use of the spin on is an upgrade - The last 3 vehicles that we have bought now have element type filters not spin ons

Duezzer; I guess I can give my two cents worth until the sages chime in!

First off have a look at the picture I posted and maybe visit their website but the

Filtermag is a very well designed/made part. I found mine in an old NAPA parts

clearance for $32.00. Definitely worth the money.

IMHO there are several reasons the LN spin-on adapter is an

upgrade, Primary is that it filters the oil 100% before sending to the oil galleries by

eliminating the oil bypass in the OEM filter canister. The advantage here is twofold,

cleaner filtered oil and as discussed in the IMSB threads since you are filtering your oil

100% you can potentially catch early IMSB failure/engine damage by preventing

collateral damage due to circulating debris. Something that really isn't discussed but I

think should be considered is a regular replacement of the OEM canister at some interval

say 50k miles, to prevent the built in bypass from weakening or failing/blocked open

resulting in more debris circulating thru the engine. Like I said my 2 cents.:ah:

[Perfectlap]

[QUOTE=911monty;461261]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Thanks! Do you have the FilterMags in there as pair or just one?

Perfectlap; I have only the one on my oil filter..

Why not both sides of the filter?

It would seem that even dispersion of the metal would be better for oil flow resulting in more efficient filtration rather than crowding one side of the filter with the accumulated metal.
I guess the question would be does better flow equal better filtration?

[911monty]

[QUOTE=Perfectlap;461288]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Why not both sides of the filter?

It would seem that even dispersion of the metal would be better for oil flow resulting in more efficient filtration rather than crowding one side of the filter with the accumulated metal.
Does better flow equal better filtration?

OH BOY!! As Topless would say it's Physics!

There are 2 types of flow, laminar and turbulent. Laminar flow as regarding an oil filter

would be the flow through a brand new filter where the entire media is being utilized

resulting in minimum velocity through the media and filter. This would allow maximum

retention time in the canister allowing a single magnet maximum time to attract the

ferrous particles. Turbulent flow would be the fluid flow as the media has become laden

with particulates , resulting in very high fluid velocity through the remaining media just

prior to plugging off entirely. This condition would most require the dual magnets. Since

I do not follow the 15k mile oil change (can you imagine the filter condition) and change

my oil around 4.5k, my thought is 1 magnet should be sufficient. However dual magnets

would certainly offer max protection. YMMV

[Perfectlap]

Okay I think I follow that. But wouldn't two magnets give you a steadier decline in laminar flow regardless of mileage? I guess that's what I was trying to ask in the first order. The slower the decline in laminar flow the more even the wear on the filter media? Which I assume is what you want.

[husker boxster]

Sorry to interupt Physics class, but I do:

Cayman: LN spin-on + NAPA Gold 1042

Boxster: Mahle cannister

I use the set up on my CSS since it's my track car and Jake mentioned it was easy to have debris damage the plastic cannister. That would not be a good thing since I frequent tracks that can be 1-2K mi away from OMA.

[911monty]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Okay I think I follow that. But wouldn't two magnets give you a steadier decline in laminar flow regardless of mileage? I guess that's what I was trying to ask in the first order. The slower the decline in laminar flow the more even the wear on the filter media? Which I assume is what you want.

Cool! Flow is only effected by media filter area decreasing due to plugging (the magnet has

no effect on the distribution of non ferrous particles to the media), Thus resulting in higher fluid velocity through the remaining media.

In laminar flow surface friction has minimal to no effect on turbulence. The Filter mag

attaches the particles to the side of the canister and has marginal effect on restricting

flow (from friction) along that side of the canister, unless/until the magnet captured

enough particles to restrict flow in that area. This would then require the dual filters to

spread out the captured particles over a wider area. However in my opinion,

going back to oil change interval, for this to happen you would have to have pretty

severe engine damage occurring to have this quantity of ferrous circulating debris. Hope this answers the

question.

[rick3000]

[QUOTE=Perfectlap;461288]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Why not both sides of the filter?

I think the simple answer is that most people don't want to spend $100 on some fancy magnets. And of course all that physics stuff.

[911monty]

[QUOTE=rick3000;461313]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I think the simple answer is that most people don't want to spend $100 on some fancy magnets. And of course all that physics stuff.

Man why didn't I think of that!!

[911monty]

[QUOTE=Perfectlap;461288]

Originally Posted by 911monty

Why not both sides of the filter?

It would seem that even dispersion of the metal would be better for oil flow resulting in more efficient filtration rather than crowding one side of the filter with the accumulated metal.
I guess the question would be does better flow equal better filtration?

Perfectlap; Please excuse me, I had to go look at the picture to understand the question.

I think what you are asking is with the magnet only filtering one side, the media on the

opposite side is loading with the debris? This is true with particles larger than 20

microns (media efficiency), but where the magnet shines is capturing particles in the

1-4 micron range that cause the most engine wear, and simply pass through the media

circulating continuously through the engine. For first pass efficiency dual magnets would

be superior.

[Duezzer]

Thanks for the info.

Are there different adapters on the marked or just the LN

I don't use NAPA products anyone know if WIX make a filter that will fit the adapter?

[thstone]

Plain Jane OEM filters.

None of my three engine failures were due to imperfect oil filtering.

[clickman]

^ but your next one could be...

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by thstone

Plain Jane OEM filters.

None of my three engine failures were due to imperfect oil filtering.

What were the culprits and how many miles on each engine?

Also, the engine may not fail but as 911Monty points out, surely over time performance can be affected by smaller bits getting past the media.

[rick3000]

In the past JFP has recommended using the Wix/NAPA Gold Oil Filter 7211, if you stick with the cartridge filter. Apparently, they are less prone to disintegrating on the ends than most paper filters.

Link: Remove oil pan

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

What were the culprits and how many miles on each engine?

Also, the engine may not fail but as 911Monty points out, surely over time performance can be affected by smaller bits getting past the media.

204,000 miles - timing chain failure
136,000 miles - lifter failure
300 miles after rebuild of 136K mile engine - repeat lifter failure due to worn lifter carrier

146,000 miles and still running fine 996 when sold

[thstone]

With the above being said ^^^, I understand that my experience is not representative of all engines.

However, in reality, doesn't the oil that goes thru the bypass get filtered the next time thru? Even if the bypass was permanent, isn't the turnover rate high enough such that it wouldn't take long for all of the oil (and all of the contaminants) to have passed thru the filter?

What I mean is first pass, 20% unfiltered. 2nd pass 20% of the first 20% is bypassed (0.04%). By the third pass, 20% x 20% x 20%, only 0.008% of the oil is unfiltered. Very quickly, the amount of unfiltered oil approaches zero and any new contaminants are also quickly filtered out in only a handful of turnovers.

Or am I missing something?

[Fyeganeh]

Originally Posted by thstone

With the above being said ^^^, I understand that my experience is not representative of all engines.

However, in reality, doesn't the oil that goes thru the bypass get filtered the next time thru? Even if the bypass was permanent, isn't the turnover rate high enough such that it wouldn't take long for all of the oil (and all of the contaminants) to have passed thru the filter?

What I mean is first pass, 20% unfiltered. 2nd pass 20% of the first 20% is bypassed (0.04%). By the third pass, 20% x 20% x 20%, only 0.008% of the oil is unfiltered. Very quickly, the amount of unfiltered oil approaches zero and any new contaminants are also quickly filtered out in only a handful of turnovers.

Or am I missing something?

You mean 20% then 4% and then 0.8% and so on. Same idea.