Skip the IMS??

[Timco]

its been 2 months. Got trans case back. All put together. I can wait a couple more weeks and see if he can come to my shop and fit that in or just bag it until next clutch. 134k on clock.

I'd like to reassemble and get on the damn road.

T

[RedTele58]

Do it now. You're most of the way there with the tranny out.

Why not have the peace of mind?

[healthservices]

Nah they never go bad....

[j.fro]

When I had my trans out at 140k I was in the same situation. I passed on the IMS, and now 4 years later the car has 173k. 'Course, my car is a 2000 with dual row IMS.
Roll the dice...

[Porsche9]

Just was at my mechanics this week and he had just done three single row IMS bearings. Every single one was in the beginning stages of failure.

[Jamesp]

I'd change it, with a Nachi high temp full seal bearing, especially since yours is a single row. This bearing is a maintenance item even if Porsche didn't designate it as one, and when it fails, well we all know that story!

[landrovered]

When I was young I believed that the outcome would be favorable. Now that I am older I plan on every possible outcome and I am never disappointed. Wait a few weeks for the part and then there is nothing left to chance.

[brjak]

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by RedTele58

Do it now. You're most of the way there with the tranny out.

Why not have the peace of mind?

Agreed. If my trans was out I would change it.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

[jsceash]

The worst part of this repair is pulling the trans and Flywheel, replace it now

[Pdwight]

I think I can detect a little clutch slippage sometimes, I will probably tackle a clutch change in the next two years (only drive the car 2K miles a year) and at that point I will for sure do the IMS bearing....I have time to pick the best method between now and then

[mikefocke]

Aside from money, what about the IMS replacement is going to delay you getting on the road? You said it would be weeks before the transmission would be reinstalled. You have time to determine which bearing is needed, what your replacement choice should be, order it, obtain the tools, study the instructions and do it.

~4 years ago, with single row engines that were up to 11 years old, the failure rate Porsche knew about was around 1% per year with surely more failing that were junked or repaired outside Porsche's knowledge. It is now ~4 years later than when those statistics were first presented to the courts. The average Boxster has gone through another owner in that time. And more miles and more unknown or undone maintenance. So the probability of a single row failure is much higher now but then again the probability of failure for all the parts is also higher.

So it comes down to are you willing to spend to fix this potential problem when all the other potential problems may, taken together, have a higher and increasing chance of taking out the engine before the IMS does?

As these cars become almost cheaper to replace than repair, this becomes a more difficult decision.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[woodsman]

Originally Posted by Timco

its been 2 months. Got trans case back. All put together. I can wait a couple more weeks and see if he can come to my shop and fit that in or just bag it until next clutch. 134k on clock.
I'd like to reassemble and get on the damn road.
T

"Well punk, do you feel lucky? Do you...?"

Personally, I think it's cheap insurance to install a new super- bearing (ceramic).

[brjak]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

[woodsman]

His car is worth almost twice what yours is and he can install the bearing himself. The vehicle's already apart- all he has to do is buy the bearing for something like $4-500(?). The car is easier to sell with it replaced and may be worth more as well. Also, few parts will cause destruction of a very expensive engine when and if it fails greatly increasing the risk of leaving the old one in.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by brjak

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

I think there are some things to clarify in this post -

1) I would be SHOCKED if a '97 could fetch anything north of $8k USD, but perhaps that is neither here nor there

2) $1500 - $2000: Isn't that a price if the trany is still IN the car? It is quite a bit cheaper if it is out, no?

3) If your IMS fails, the value of your car goes to just about $0. By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...

We all sort of have a big revolver with one bullet that we are spinning...at some point it will go boom.

[brjak]

For $400 i might do it. I'm just pointing out. there is a lot of hysteria surrounding the IMS situation. Most of it valid. But with that said. I am talking about the more robust dual row IMS. I would not buy a 01-05 Boxster or 911 because of that issue. but a 97 0r 98. I would roll the dice everytime. again, value of the car has to be taken into account. Just, don't get tunnel vision on the IMS and failure rates of said part.

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by Dlirium

By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...

We all sort of have a big revolver with one bullet that we are spinning...at some point it will go boom.

Other parts can go boom too and there goes your engine and your investment in any IMS. A simple accident in a car this old will take it down too.

So by adding 20% to its cost basis, you add how much to the probability that it will still be around in a few years? Do you increase the probability more than by changing the water pump?

Even at 10%, if the IMSs fail at 2% a year, is that still a good investment?

My point is that when these were $25k cars, the investment made obvious sense. But now? Does it still?

Maybe emotionally or for peace of mind.

[brjak]

Originally Posted by Dlirium

3) If your IMS fails, the value of your car goes to just about $0. By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...
.

Value of car is not reduced to zero. You could part the car out, or sell as a rolling chassis. Probably get 6-7kCDN. in essence without IMs and engine failure. value-7K. 11K car with 2K invested in an IMS replacement. Car value 11K. SO really the swing is roughly 3K on the car. Now saying that we are talking about a 97 Base boxster.