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Old 10-06-2014, 07:41 PM   #1
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The Sub-Boxster is Dead

Porsche is supposed to be a "rich person's car" so I do agree they should focus on luxury and sport and not lower cost entry vehicles. But understand arguments could be made either way.

Porsche's Sub-Boxster Sports Car Is D-E-D, Dead
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:06 PM   #2
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Yes, let them continue to build the high end luxury/sport vehicles.

If anyone wants an entry level Porsche, there are plenty of 10+ year old great cars out there that need some lovin'.

No need to lower the bar at the start.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:44 PM   #3
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Agree with that. "arguments could go either way." I'm glad its dead. Only minus to me is that they won't be making another sports car. Plus is they won't be sharing anything with VW, another water downed sports car, they appear to be showing a little respect to 986 owners who cherish these cars, okay okay I'll stop.
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:57 AM   #4
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This is actually bad news, not because the sub boxster may have been good, but because it was a place for them to put the flat 4. How it sounds now the 981 refresh will all be flat 4s. Now I could see maybe the base model, but making every variant a 4 cylinder, regardless of speed, that doesn't seem the way to go.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:37 AM   #5
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This is actually bad news, not because the sub boxster may have been good, but because it was a place for them to put the flat 4. How it sounds now the 981 refresh will all be flat 4s. Now I could see maybe the base model, but making every variant a 4 cylinder, regardless of speed, that doesn't seem the way to go.
As I understand, they were putting those flat 4s in the Boxster no matter what. That was the plan all along and I don't think it's changed. What I can glean though, is at least they have no plans to put the 1.6 Flat 4 in - just the 2 and 2.5 The 1.6 was the one for this car.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:06 AM   #6
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As I understand, they were putting those flat 4s in the Boxster no matter what. That was the plan all along and I don't think it's changed. What I can glean though, is at least they have no plans to put the 1.6 Flat 4 in - just the 2 and 2.5 The 1.6 was the one for this car.
There is no way I'd ever buy a Porsche with a flat 4 in it, they belong in Subaru's. I happen to have a Subaru as well, and that engine will not sound right in a Porsche. I think they'll lose a lot of Boxster customers if they do that, but maybe they're hoping they will buy a 911 instead. Plus side is it won't harm the collectability or price of real Boxsters like the 986.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:22 AM   #7
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There is no way I'd ever buy a Porsche with a flat 4 in it, they belong in Subaru's. I happen to have a Subaru as well, and that engine will not sound right in a Porsche. I think they'll lose a lot of Boxster customers if they do that, but maybe they're hoping they will buy a 911 instead. Plus side is it won't harm the collectability or price of real Boxsters like the 986.
So you'd never buy a 356, 912, 914-4, etc.?

I also doubt most Boxster buyers will care if it's a four versus a six (if the power is the same). If the flat-fours are turbocharged, there is likely a greater tuning potential to be had with an ECU reflash.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:28 AM   #8
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So you'd never buy a 356, 912, 914-4, etc.?

I also doubt most Boxster buyers will care if it's a four versus a six (if the power is the same). If the flat-fours are turbocharged, there is likely a greater tuning potential to be had with an ECU reflash.
I can't afford a 356 that's for sure, and no not interested in the others.

Looks like it's Porsche bowing to the green lobby, another reason not to get one.
This is apparently the engine in testing.

Are These the New Flat-Four Porsche Boxster/Cayman Models?
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:36 AM   #9
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I think it's good for the values of the 986 and 987s
Sorry selfish
I don't see myself ever affording a new Porsche
Love the one your with
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:44 AM   #10
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I think it's good for the values of the 986 and 987s
Sorry selfish
I don't see myself ever affording a new Porsche
Love the one your with
That's interesting. I see myself growing my business until I buy Jay Leno' collection. (When my eyes are closed. )

A new P car? Not all that unattainable. Invest if your job isn't getting you there. Flip homes, flip cars, stocks, whatever. If it's what you want, do more to get it.
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Old 10-07-2014, 05:48 AM   #11
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That's interesting. I see myself growing my business until I buy Jay Leno' collection. (When my eyes are closed. )

A new P car? Not all that unattainable. Invest if your job isn't getting you there. Flip homes, flip cars, stocks, whatever. If it's what you want, do more to get it.
I have 2-brand new 911 turbos in college
I'm also not sure the value new is so justifyable unless money really isn't any issue
Seems the second hand market has a lot of bang for the buck keeping in mind that maintenance costs used or new are the same
Only justifiable point for new is there should be no repair costs for several years
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:57 AM   #12
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They have been saying it is dead for years and yet the rumors

and supposed prototypes still abound. Some will see it as a car that would have diluted the brand and cheapened the porsche name. With the rate the Macan is selling, they will be on every street corner pretty soon so brand dilution is not something I really worry about. A four cylinder (356, 914, 924/44/68, 550, etc.) would have been just fine and is just as big a part of porsche heritage as the flat six is. If they could have got this thing to the close to the size and weight of a miata with the potential power of the turbo four, it could have been a giant killer.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:30 AM   #13
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Porshce is supposed to be a rich person's car??!!

C'mon Giller!

Porsche is supposed to be a driver's car.

At any rate, selling another roadster, when they already sell the one that sets the bar in it that class seems really redundant. If the person can't afford or doesn't want to buy new then Porsche can easily steer them toward their CPO division and provide their Porsche financing options.

The point of expanding a product line is to capture more types of drivers. For instance the Maccan probably appeals to urban drivers needing a hauler with some winter driving clearance.
The 918 appeals to billionaires, can't think of many others who would drop that kind of money on just a car. The Panamera is cross shopped with other giant sedans lile the 7 series or that monstrously large Jaguar whatever.
If anything Porsche would be wise to offer a shorter version of the Panamera to reel in mid-sized luxury sedan buyer.
They already have the Panamera coupe (aka what is now the Carrera).

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Originally Posted by Deserion View Post
So you'd never buy a 356, 912, 914-4, etc.?

I also doubt most Boxster buyers will care if it's a four versus a six (if the power is the same). If the flat-fours are turbocharged, there is likely a greater tuning potential to be had with an ECU reflash.
^ a.k.a an expensive, rebranded Volkswagen.

The only Porsche that should be subjected to a four are those weighing less than 2,000 lbs.
Modern Porsches need flat 6's (turbo or supercharging is up to the owner).. or maybe flat8 too, why not. Allegedly there is a development Cayman rolling around inside of Porsche with a flat8.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:55 AM   #14
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I think it's good for the values of the 986 and 987s
Sorry selfish
I don't see myself ever affording a new Porsche
I think Porsche are slowly raising the prices of their new cars now that foreign markets have provided no shortage of wealthy buyers. They seem to be more interested in becoming the next Rolls Royce or Bentley while leaving the BMW, Mercs and Audis to fight over the people who scoff at a 20-30% price hike. They're after the buyer that has serious bank and flips their new car every year instead of every four. As a boutique brand they can afford to do that, not much risk because of their brand status and swelling ranks of multimillionaires and billionaires. Lot's of upside for Porsche to go way upstream.


p.s.
I don't think selling a entry level Porsche would have any impact on used Boxster prices. First of all there are a metric ton of water-cooled Boxsters/Caymans and Carreras. And that's before you even get to the Panas and Cayennes.
Right now on Autotrader there are over 3,000 996/997 and 991's up for sale. 996 Turbos are already into the $30k range which means they're already cheaper than what this new entry level Porsche would have cost.
With this kind of used Porsche inventory there simply will never be enough used car buyers willing to roll the dice on an out-of-warranty German car that requires expensive parts and specialized labor. Supply and demand will be out of balance for decades to come. Porsche are simply selling too many cars. And those air-cooled cars have become baseball cards on wheels, every time you put 10K miles on the odometer the owner feels the pinch so in the garage it stays on all but sunny days. Point is having lots of water-cooled Porsches available to us makes buying new kind of nuts to me, it's like burning hundred dollar bills with a cigar lighter. But that's just me. Be patient and you'll have any Porsche you want with all of the latest safety and performance. Just make sure its not PDK, those are going to be a nightmare to fix out-of-warranty.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:54 AM   #15
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Porshce is supposed to be a rich person's car??!!

C'mon Giller!

Porsche is supposed to be a driver's car.

At any rate, selling another roadster, when they already sell the one that sets the bar in it that class seems really redundant. If the person can't afford or doesn't want to buy new then Porsche can easily steer them toward their CPO division and provide their Porsche financing options.

The point of expanding a product line is to capture more types of drivers. For instance the Maccan probably appeals to urban drivers needing a hauler with some winter driving clearance.
The 918 appeals to billionaires, can't think of many others who would drop that kind of money on just a car. The Panamera is cross shopped with other giant sedans lile the 7 series or that monstrously large Jaguar whatever.
If anything Porsche would be wise to offer a shorter version of the Panamera to reel in mid-sized luxury sedan buyer.
They already have the Panamera coupe (aka what is now the Carrera).



^ a.k.a an expensive, rebranded Volkswagen.

The only Porsche that should be subjected to a four are those weighing less than 2,000 lbs.
Modern Porsches need flat 6's (turbo or supercharging is up to the owner).. or maybe flat8 too, why not. Allegedly there is a development Cayman rolling around inside of Porsche with a flat8.
I don't know...my 951 turbo with a 4 begs to differ...
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:24 AM   #16
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Porshce is supposed to be a rich person's car??!!

C'mon Giller!

Porsche is supposed to be a driver's car.
Alright, let me rephrase. Porsche is supposed to be a rich man's driver's car. I'm not a historian, but for my entire life Porsche has always been one of the benchmarks of prosperity. If you had a Porsche, you've made it. (heck - I've only had mine for a few months, but the comments are crazy. Yet, most of the people who make the comments drive more expensive cars. They only see "Porsche" and assume).
Many many people who own a Porsche do so simply because it's a Porsche.
There is no doubt this is the best car I've ever driven and love owning it, no matter if it's killing my bank account. But the company certainly markets their cars to 'people of means'.

Volkswagen Pockets $23,000 When You Buy That New Porsche - Businessweek
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:44 AM   #17
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For me it is less so the 4 and more so the turbo. I would take a smaller slower 6 than a faster 4. If they can offer a 4 NA with electric and keep the weight down, that sounds like a pretty good car.

Anyways buy your boxster spyders and GTS while you can. The last of the 6 will be quite reveled one day, and the first of the 6 hopefully will be too!

Consider it a new era boys and girls, porsche is a fuel efficent luxury brand, with a (very sharp and competitive still) sporty edge.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:51 AM   #18
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I think Porsche are slowly raising the prices of their new cars now that foreign markets have provided no shortage of wealthy buyers. They seem to be more interested in becoming the next Rolls Royce or Bentley while leaving the BMW, Mercs and Audis to fight over the people who scoff at a 20-30% price hike. They're after the buyer that has serious bank and flips their new car every year instead of every four. As a boutique brand they can afford to do that, not much risk because of their brand status and swelling ranks of multimillionaires and billionaires. Lot's of upside for Porsche to go way upstream.


p.s.
I don't think selling a entry level Porsche would have any impact on used Boxster prices. First of all there are a metric ton of water-cooled Boxsters/Caymans and Carreras. And that's before you even get to the Panas and Cayennes.
Right now on Autotrader there are over 3,000 996/997 and 991's up for sale. 996 Turbos are already into the $30k range which means they're already cheaper than what this new entry level Porsche would have cost.
With this kind of used Porsche inventory there simply will never be enough used car buyers willing to roll the dice on an out-of-warranty German car that requires expensive parts and specialized labor. Supply and demand will be out of balance for decades to come. Porsche are simply selling too many cars. And those air-cooled cars have become baseball cards on wheels, every time you put 10K miles on the odometer the owner feels the pinch so in the garage it stays on all but sunny days. Point is having lots of water-cooled Porsches available to us makes buying new kind of nuts to me, it's like burning hundred dollar bills with a cigar lighter. But that's just me. Be patient and you'll have any Porsche you want with all of the latest safety and performance. Just make sure its not PDK, those are going to be a nightmare to fix out-of-warranty.

I think it is crazy to buy a new anything, but porsches really are good value, a 981 with the right options is competing against cars worth over double, the panamera is a bargain compared to the Rapide, The Macan is the bargain of the century. The only porsche that seems overpriced is a base 911, heck you can get a gt3 before you can get a few options on a base 911. So yeah they are good value compared to other cars on the market and the price hikes simply match inflation perfectly, put in the base price for a 986 into an inflation calculator and you get pretty close to a 981 base price, and I'd argue the 981 comes better equipped from the factory.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:12 PM   #19
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I think it is crazy to buy a new anything, but porsches really are good value, a 981 with the right options is competing against cars worth over double, the panamera is a bargain compared to the Rapide, The Macan is the bargain of the century. The only porsche that seems overpriced is a base 911, heck you can get a gt3 before you can get a few options on a base 911. So yeah they are good value compared to other cars on the market and the price hikes simply match inflation perfectly, put in the base price for a 986 into an inflation calculator and you get pretty close to a 981 base price, and I'd argue the 981 comes better equipped from the factory.
Value is a very tough concept to gauge. It's different for everyone out there. Personally, I would never buy a Porsche new off the lot. It would stretch my budget just too much, putting pressure on my finances which would cramp my enjoyment of the ride. I would get better 'value' out of a high end Jetta for example. (now, if I ever win the lottery, look out!)
But I do see that Porsche's have the highest profit margins of all cars - that also tends to skew my opinion of their 'value' if buying new.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:37 PM   #20
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Value is a very tough concept to gauge. It's different for everyone out there. Personally, I would never buy a Porsche new off the lot. It would stretch my budget just too much, putting pressure on my finances which would cramp my enjoyment of the ride. I would get better 'value' out of a high end Jetta for example. (now, if I ever win the lottery, look out!)

But I do see that Porsche's have the highest profit margins of all cars - that also tends to skew my opinion of their 'value' if buying new.

I wouldn't buy one new either, but a panamera is Cadillac money these days, and you can trust that if I was to buy one new, it would be the one with a headliner that won't fall.
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