As close as it gets: IMS Save!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by thstone

The engine can certainly "pull through" and run for awhile longer if that is all the owner is looking for, but eventually it will likely suffer a major failure due to the damage that wasn't repaired. Or worse, the "just-get-it-running-again" car gets sold and the next owner is stuck with an engine that is living on borrowed time.

There ought to be a watch list of cars that had the IMS swap after failure had begun without a full tear down. I'm guessing if the pan is cleaned, and oil changed before a PPI, the prospective buyer will have no idea that the engine has little radioactive bits deep inside. Nor would the seller disclose this as it would require a steep reduction in the ask. So for the lurkers, be very wary of a car with a recent IMS swap or one with little mileage since the swap. Maybe owners should ask for photos of the bearing from their mechanic at the moment of initial extraction. This can be put in the service records come time to sell the car. Sure this photo evidence can be staged but thats pretty shady stuff that I doubt a shop with a long and well known history would risk for no real profit. On second thought maybe a short video burned to DVD would be better. After all this a $10k plus concern that could give a potential buyer some peace of mind. The shop could charge accordingly.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

There ought to be a watch list of cars that had the IMS swap after failure had begun without a full tear down. I'm guessing if the pan is cleaned, and oil changed before a PPI, the prospective buyer will have no idea that the engine has little radioactive bits deep inside. Nor would the seller disclose this as it would require a steep reduction in the ask. So for the lurkers, be very wary of a car with a recent IMS swap or one with little mileage since the swap. Maybe owners should ask for photos of the bearing from their mechanic at the moment of initial extraction. This can be put in the service records come time to sell the car. Sure this photo evidence can be staged but thats pretty shady stuff that I doubt a shop with a long and well known history would risk for no real profit. On second thought maybe a short video burned to DVD would be better. After all this a $10k plus concern that could give a potential buyer some peace of mind. The shop could charge accordingly.

The proper method of registering an IMS Bearing Retrofit requires the old bearing to be sent back to LN, where it becomes part of a data base.

At the end of the day, from the developer's stand point, any engine that has a bearing failing shouldn't be retrofitted.

If any retrofit bearing fails, no matter if the customer was told or not, it still tarnishes the retrofit reputation. It also has a lot to do with the way the customer is "told" about what **may** happen in the future. If I explain these things to someone, they certainly won't move forward. No unicorns or rainbows here.

If they can't afford to fix it the right way today, before it fails, they damn sure won't be able to afford to repair it after it fails. Then they'll want someone else higher up in the food chain to "stand behind their product". That may be the shop that installed the retrofit bearing, or it may be the retrofit component manufacturer.

Then, they'll be told "NO" and they'll get pissy, then they'll decide to scream about it on a forum... Meanwhile, no one knows the whole backstory.

In my professional classes, I added two hours of info specifically on the topic of pre- qualification prior to an IMSR.

Thinking that's a very fair way to do it as some clients don't have the financial resources to do it up 'the official way'.

Fair to who? Its not fair to the technology or the developers to put these components in harm's way. The people that lack the "financial resources" are the ones who will expect someone else to pay the bill for them. They scream the loudest and whine hardest.

[Ebell914]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The proper method of registering an IMS Bearing Retrofit requires the old bearing to be sent back to LN, where it becomes part of a data base.

Jake - my car has a retrofit from the previous owner. Can I contact you with my VIN to see if it was registered?

[cnavarro]

The LN website also goes as far as to state:

3. If the original bearing has failed, a Preferred Installer will NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES perform any IMS procedure.

The problem herein lies that we do not have a clear definition of what is a failed bearing. From the picture that was posted, I would consider that bearing failed, but again, that's my opinion and you know what they say, opinions are like ass*****, everyone has one.

If a procedure that is carried out in less than optimal conditions, yes, there is no warranty, but a spin on oil filter must be employed in addition to more frequent oil changes and dropping of the oil pan at every change.

Someone posting that they have saved a motor with a retrofit procedure without clearly stating the extra lengths required and also clarifying that it is a good chance the engine will still blow up gives people the wrong idea. Most failures of our IMS Retrofit bearings can be tracked back to the original bearing having failed or even having started to fail. Any debris = a good chance the engine will blow up.

One of our competitors throws us under the bus with a video of a failed LN bearing but neglects to point out that the original bearing was cut out of the ims and the engine had already been compromised and that same bearing was removed then reinstalled in another engine before supposedly having failed.

Similarities between these two cases are that posts are made and without all the details, people can take away whatever they want, whether correct or incorrect, as the information shared can and will be taken out of context.

I personally would only do retrofit procedures on healthy engines, that's just me, but I'll be honest that I know that tens of installations are done weekly that, if I were consulted, I would recommend against carrying out.

Only a small percentage of bearings are registered and only one or two were sent in that were failed bearings where the shop still carried out the procedure. I can tell you in every case that the original bearing was failed that I know of, the new bearing failed too.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Ebell914

Jake - my car has a retrofit from the previous owner. Can I contact you with my VIN to see if it was registered?

ONLY if it has a serialized Flat 6 Innovations decal in the door jamb, as installed here at our facility during the installation.

[Sanford_yee]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The proper method of registering an IMS Bearing Retrofit requires the old bearing to be sent back to LN, where it becomes part of a data base.

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

ONLY if it has a serialized Flat 6 Innovations decal in the door jamb, as installed here at our facility during the installation.

Jake: This doesn't make sense. The only time you have the vin in a database is if you install the bearing and you send it back to yourself? Did I read these posts correctly?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Sanford_yee

Jake: This doesn't make sense. The only time you have the vin in a database is if you install the bearing and you send it back to yourself? Did I read these posts correctly?

No, you are a bit confused. While I am the developer of the process and have done all the test work for the products, we do not manufacture them- thats LN Engineering.

Nothing thats purchased for an IMSR is bought from my company. We do offer IMSR services, and in those cases we do carry the work out here and have our own data base.

My IMSR development work was done for LN Engineering. Thats what my role has been since day #1.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The proper method of registering an IMS Bearing Retrofit requires the old bearing to be sent back to LN, where it becomes part of a data base.

At the end of the day, from the developer's stand point, any engine that has a bearing failing shouldn't be retrofitted.

If any retrofit bearing fails, no matter if the customer was told or not, it still tarnishes the retrofit reputation. It also has a lot to do with the way the customer is "told" about what **may** happen in the future. If I explain these things to someone, they certainly won't move forward. No unicorns or rainbows here.

If they can't afford to fix it the right way today, before it fails, they damn sure won't be able to afford to repair it after it fails. Then they'll want someone else higher up in the food chain to "stand behind their product". That may be the shop that installed the retrofit bearing, or it may be the retrofit component manufacturer.

Then, they'll be told "NO" and they'll get pissy, then they'll decide to scream about it on a forum... Meanwhile, no one knows the whole backstory.

In my professional classes, I added two hours of info specifically on the topic of pre- qualification prior to an IMSR.



Fair to who? Its not fair to the technology or the developers to put these components in harm's way. The people that lack the "financial resources" are the ones who will expect someone else to pay the bill for them. They scream the loudest and whine hardest.

If the developers are going to sell their product on the open market to whomever, then they give away any rights to it and people are free to do what they wish. Maybe the developers should only provide their product to licensed shops if this is a concern?

[Jake Raby]

If the developers are going to sell their product on the open market to whomever, then they give away any rights to it and people are free to do what they wish.

Which is fine, as long as those individuals assume full responsibility for their judgment calls. Some do. Some don't, and some have been caught in the act.

Maybe the developers should only provide their product to licensed shops if this is a concern?

Which is similar to what the IMS Solution Certified Installer program is based around.

Its tough to moderate these things and if we didn't care, we'd want everyone to install every retrofit possible, engine failing, or not. Thats not the case.