Question about pricing on 2005 leftovers

[laphil]

I purchased a leftover 2005 model. One thing: watch out for the warranty date. A number of these cars are put into service way before you buy them resulting in a warrranty period that may be shorter than 4 years from the date you purchase. It happened to me at Pacific Porsche in So Cal when the active service date wasn't disclosed. They called it an oversight; I call it fraudulent. (only because I asked a couple times about the warranty and they ensured me that even though it was on '05, the warranty, etc was the same as if I were to get an '06.) I called Porsche North America, and they said this is a frequent problem.

I would ask for the VIN number and call Porsche North America (1-800-PORSCHE) and ask them if the car is in service.

And in all fairness to Pacific Porsche, I'll post the outcome to this situation.

[mach schnell]

laphil - how many miles did your 05 have on it when you bought it? had it been a loaner car or dealer driven car before you bought it? it would seem that it wouldn't be registered into service until it officially left the dealer lot (ie, for sale to you or as a loaner car or as a dealer driver, etc)

[Brucelee]

As a dealer, I can tell you that most of what has been offered will not make any positive difference in getting a good price. What will make a difference is to know how much you think the car is worth and how much you can pay. These two numbers are paramount if you to negotiate a good deal for yourself.


In other words, do you homework!

I encourage you to Make a REAL and a FAIR offer and be able to explain to the dealer where you got your number from. If you make an absurd offer, you label yourself as a con man or a flake, In either case, the dealer will write you off and negotiations will likely end.

In the end, the dealer has a number. If you find that number quickly and honorably, and it works for you, you have a fair deal. Most of what has been offered simply allows you to annoy each other and inflame emotions on both sides.


Telling the dealer what you think Boxsters are selling for 3500 miles away does nothing to get you a good deal. Showing him a REAL offer in your region does. Denigrating the car he has while trying to buy it shows you to be dishonest. Why do you expect him to take you seriously if you are wheeling and dealing on a car you really don't want? If you are negotiating, he should assume you really want that car.

Clearly, engaging in tactics both either party does not get you any more quickly to a number you can both live with.

If you work with most folks honestly and in good faith, you will end up happier with the process and the car.

And of course, you should always walk from a deal that does not work for you. I encourage you to know what the walk away number is and why. Then do that if appropriate.

IHMO!

[denverpete]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

As a dealer, I can tell you that most of what has been offered will not make any positive difference in getting a good price. What will make a difference is to know how much you think the car is worth and how much you can pay. These two numbers are paramount if you to negotiate a good deal for yourself.


In other words, do you homework!

I encourage you to Make a REAL and a FAIR offer and be able to explain to the dealer where you got your number from. If you make an absurd offer, you label yourself as a con man or a flake, In either case, the dealer will write you off and negotiations will likely end.

In the end, the dealer has a number. If you find that number quickly and honorably, and it works for you, you have a fair deal. Most of what has been offered simply allows you to annoy each other and inflame emotions on both sides.


Telling the dealer what you think Boxsters are selling for 3500 miles away does nothing to get you a good deal. Showing him a REAL offer in your region does. Denigrating the car he has while trying to buy it shows you to be dishonest. Why do you expect him to take you seriously if you are wheeling and dealing on a car you really don't want? If you are negotiating, he should assume you really want that car.

Clearly, engaging in tactics both either party does not get you any more quickly to a number you can both live with.

If you work with most folks honestly and in good faith, you will end up happier with the process and the car.

And of course, you should always walk from a deal that does not work for you. I encourage you to know what the walk away number is and why. Then do that if appropriate.

IHMO!

In some strange way I get where you are coming from - but I still think the current way of buying cars is absolute crap.

You want me to make a REAL and FAIR offer? Why the hell isn't the vehicle priced REAL and FAIRLY to begin with? Why should my negotiating skill or ability to impress some salesman impact my car value? Why should I have FIND that "dealer number"? Why should I have to show him a REAL offer in my region? If I don't do these things I get screwed? That may be the "way it is" - but it's still crap!

I bought a car for my wife this weekend. I spent a few day researching vehicles and then visited 3 dealers and let each dealer know that for the right price I'll buy the car on the spot. My first dealer offered a vehicle $2500-3500 above anything in the market. After we looked over the car and my wife took it for a drive I asked "what's the lowest price you'd let this go for". I got the "well, the price is on the window - once that's on there - it's pretty much what they are willing to let it go for - but, you know, everything is negotiable." My wife looked at me and knew we weren't buying from this doofus. When I pointed out that his price was way out of line with similar vehicles - I got a repeat of his spiel. As I was leaving he approached my Box and asked for our number, "you know, in case we can make a better deal".

We hit another dealer. I went through the same spiel. He came down in price - but was still way out of line for the vehicle. I told him what I'd take it for and I got the old "that's what we bought it for - my manager will laugh at me - I can sell these all day".... Take your pick. I didn't want to hang around while he "went to bat for me with the manager". I walked.

The next dealer we hit already had the vehicle priced right. He wasn't interested in any negotiations since the vehicle was already a great value (about $5000.00 less than the other dealers and spot on for regional value, mileage, and condition). I purchased the vehicle on the spot contigent upon a mechanic inspection and a new stereo (which my wife gets to pick out).

I think it's interesting that you don't condone the "tactics" listed below - but we as customers have to deal with all the dealer tactics. And let me tell you, I've seen 'em all! Dealers over emphasize the positives (and I use that loosely) of their vehicles - but it's not okay for us to point out the negatives? What's up with that? Play down the poor condition of the purchase vehicle - but make a stink about a tiny scratch on my trade in? Take my keys. Move my car. Run my credit when I tell you I have outside financing....

Yeah - we're the ones who are dishonest.

I mean - IMHO!

[Brucelee]

I never implied that this negotiation process was pristine on the dealer side. What I was trying to illustrate was a process where you could side step this nonsense by acting differently.

Face it, SOME customers and SOME dealers simply out and out lie to each other. Neither side wins in this process and usually, neither one actually ends up making the deal.

If you go back to my post, I am suggesting that you actually articulate what you are willing to pay for the car and why, and that you not make up an absurd number. That is actually what some dealers do, in hopes that some duncecap will pay it. Base YOUR number in reality and make an offer on a car you actually want.

By simply articulating what you are willing to pay and why, you simply END THE GAME.

Then go home and wait. If you made the same offer to 5 dealers and no one took it, then you have some legitimate feedback that this was the wrong offer.

If one took the offer, you have feedback that, you have a car and the other 4 dealers want more money. That makes you a good negotiator.

How is this bad advice?

[Brucelee]

Keep your shirt on and lets keep talking!


I never implied that this negotiation process was pristine on the dealer side. What I was trying to illustrate was a process where you could side step this nonsense by acting differently.

Face it, SOME customers and SOME dealers simply out and out lie to each other. Neither side wins in this process and usually, neither one actually ends up making the deal.

If you go back to my post, I am suggesting that you actually articulate what you are willing to pay for the car and why, and that you not make up an absurd number. That is actually what some dealers do, in hopes that some duncecap will pay it. Base YOUR number in reality and make an offer on a car you actually want.

By simply articulating what you are willing to pay and why, you simply END THE GAME.

Then go home and wait. If you made the same offer to 5 dealers and no one took it, then you have some legitimate feedback that this was the wrong offer.

If one took the offer, you have feedback that, you have a car and the other 4 dealers want more money. That makes you a good negotiator.

How is this bad advice?

By the way, dealer 3 is the dealer to deal with, an approach that I take on ALL my vehicles.

Surprisingly, some customers cannot deal with that approach and are still looking for my REAL number.

Go figure!
__________________

Originally Posted by denverpete

In some strange way I get where you are coming from - but I still think the current way of buying cars is absolute crap.

You want me to make a REAL and FAIR offer? Why the hell isn't the vehicle priced REAL and FAIRLY to begin with? Why should my negotiating skill or ability to impress some salesman impact my car value? Why should I have FIND that "dealer number"? Why should I have to show him a REAL offer in my region? If I don't do these things I get screwed? That may be the "way it is" - but it's still crap!

I bought a car for my wife this weekend. I spent a few day researching vehicles and then visited 3 dealers and let each dealer know that for the right price I'll buy the car on the spot. My first dealer offered a vehicle $2500-3500 above anything in the market. After we looked over the car and my wife took it for a drive I asked "what's the lowest price you'd let this go for". I got the "well, the price is on the window - once that's on there - it's pretty much what they are willing to let it go for - but, you know, everything is negotiable." My wife looked at me and knew we weren't buying from this doofus. When I pointed out that his price was way out of line with similar vehicles - I got a repeat of his spiel. As I was leaving he approached my Box and asked for our number, "you know, in case we can make a better deal".

We hit another dealer. I went through the same spiel. He came down in price - but was still way out of line for the vehicle. I told him what I'd take it for and I got the old "that's what we bought it for - my manager will laugh at me - I can sell these all day".... Take your pick. I didn't want to hang around while he "went to bat for me with the manager". I walked.

The next dealer we hit already had the vehicle priced right. He wasn't interested in any negotiations since the vehicle was already a great value (about $5000.00 less than the other dealers and spot on for regional value, mileage, and condition). I purchased the vehicle on the spot contigent upon a mechanic inspection and a new stereo (which my wife gets to pick out).

I think it's interesting that you don't condone the "tactics" listed below - but we as customers have to deal with all the dealer tactics. And let me tell you, I've seen 'em all! Dealers over emphasize the positives (and I use that loosely) of their vehicles - but it's not okay for us to point out the negatives? What's up with that? Play down the poor condition of the purchase vehicle - but make a stink about a tiny scratch on my trade in? Take my keys. Move my car. Run my credit when I tell you I have outside financing....

Yeah - we're the ones who are dishonest.

I mean - IMHO!

[denverpete]

Okay - fair enough. It's good advice about a game we're forced to play. My point is that it's a stupid game we shouldn't have to play. Explaining the rules doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by denverpete

Okay - fair enough. It's good advice about a game we're forced to play. My point is that it's a stupid game we shouldn't have to play. Explaining the rules doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

There are dealers and car lines that have tried the "one price" approach to selling price. Normally, this has failed as the market has rejected there being one price. Both sides have developed an expectation that the first price is not the real price.

Personally, I set a very fair and market based price for my Porsches but still find buyers asking me


"what is your real price?"

That is frustrating and so, now, I normally build just a bit into the price so that they can feel they have "negotiated" a good price. Silly game but it seems to be wanted and so I do it.

For some customers, this process is quite an ego boost. This is especially true when a guy brings his woman in with him. Man, you should see the strutting going on there.

"Honey, watch me drop this deaer!"

Fact is, these guys usually have no negotiating skills. How good do they feel when they leave without the car she wants?

Such is life!

[laphil]

Originally Posted by mach schnell

laphil - how many miles did your 05 have on it when you bought it? had it been a loaner car or dealer driven car before you bought it? it would seem that it wouldn't be registered into service until it officially left the dealer lot (ie, for sale to you or as a loaner car or as a dealer driver, etc)

It had about 60 miles, and it wasn't a loaner. I was told they just wanted to move it out of the inventory to make room for the '06, and 60 miles on an '05 doesn't seem that unusual, does it?

And you're right, it WOULD seem it wouldn't be registered into survice until it officially left the dealer lot. Not the case, though... and apparently not uncommon.

[mach schnell]

hmmm - makes me think I should call Hoehn in Carlsbad and verify that my warranty began when I drove the car off the lot in Feb - mine is also an 05 that had 70 miles on it. I'm sure I raised the question while there, but then again, I also expected two keys when I bought the car. They fibbed and said, oh no, you only get one, if you want another you have to order it. well, i checked into it and found out i was right and contacted my sales person who promptly said, oh, yeah, we must of lost it, I'll get ya another one. The other one finally arrived a week and a half ago - of course, not programmed, though. so, back to the drawing board.

do you think i should just call Porsche and inquire about the effective date of my warranty or should i start with the dealership?

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by mach schnell

hmmm - makes me think I should call Hoehn in Carlsbad and verify that my warranty began when I drove the car off the lot in Feb - mine is also an 05 that had 70 miles on it. I'm sure I raised the question while there, but then again, I also expected two keys when I bought the car. They fibbed and said, oh no, you only get one, if you want another you have to order it. well, i checked into it and found out i was right and contacted my sales person who promptly said, oh, yeah, we must of lost it, I'll get ya another one. The other one finally arrived a week and a half ago - of course, not programmed, though. so, back to the drawing board.

do you think i should just call Porsche and inquire about the effective date of my warranty or should i start with the dealership?

Call Mike Cooper in the service dept (760-438-4434) and ask him if he would look this up in the service dept data base. They have the REAL date which every Porsche service shop would view when deciding if an item is under warranty. Mike is staight shooter, tell him Rich Belloff suggested the call.

PS-don't call first thing in the morning, they are really busy.

Yes, the car should have two keys!

Duh on some of these salesmen.

[mach schnell]

thanks rich

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by mach schnell

thanks rich

You bet!