I screwed up while bleeding my brakes
 

I had my wife pump the pedal doing the usual routine when I forgot to top off the reservoir and sucked in a massive air bubble. Oops! Now I think I might have a massive air bubble trapped in the ABS. No matter how much more bleeding the pedal still goes to the floor after I leave it alone for a few minutes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chris

Same club. I'll post more when I get home.

My pedal is rock hard if pumped with car off. Stays that way. Car on, 2-3rd pump brakes well, but 1st push softly drops. 3/4 way down then brakes uneven.

Just bought pimp up style bleeder. Can't wait to make this right.

Chris sounds like your going to need some more brake fluid. Shoot me a pm I have a power bleeder you can use this weekend. Your in my neck of the woods.

Class. Pure class! :)

You are going to need a PST II, PIWIS, or Durametric system to cycle the ABS/PSM network while bleeding the car, that is the only way to get air our of the ABS system. Simple pressure flushing or pumping the brakes is not going to do it.

FWIW, it's $200-$250 at my P car dealer to flush the fluid and get the air out.

Or I can buy a PC laptop and the Durametric. For now I'll have P flush it.

I have the Durametric. I didn't know there was a section that will help flush or cycle the ABS. This will be interesting. I will try it when I get home on Sunday.

Is it an inline ABS system? I mean does the abs have a separate fill bottle?

This is a bit less than proper for some, but heres what I do when I flush my own brakes:

Run the bleeder hose a few inches up (like through the spring) and into a container. crack open the bleeder. When you push the pedal, fluid goes out (and air bubbles if thats the case). when you release the pedal, it may suck back in some fluid, but not the air, thanks gravity. I do this all the time as I have no local car friends.

As for air in the system. I've bled the old fluid out of the system, so its pretty much all new, clear fluid. What I've done is run a brake hose from the bleeder nipple all the way to the fluid resovoir on the MC. Yes, you may want towels for this - as brake fluid makes a decent paint thinner. when you open the bleeder, pump the pedal and fluid will make its way through the hose to the resovoir. check every 10 or 12 pumps to make sure the fluid level doesn't go low. By doing this, you can sit in the car and pump the pedal a hundred times or so and all of the air will push through the system, out the hose and into the resovoir where the bubbles float to the top and pop.

if the abs system works in the way that most other makes of cars do, this should work fine. I've done this on Hondas, Nissans, Astons, Toyotas and Mitsubishis and was never unable to bleed a car myself like this.

The bleeder hose by the way has an inner diameter of 3/16" if I recall. its roughly 30 cents a foot at a local hardware store.

Remember to bleed the outer bleeder valve first and then the inner one.

Hope this helps and that I'm not overstepping my bounds here.

Great post. I'll try this in an hour or two. Thanks!

Ran motive bleeder forever. Pumped brakes a lot. Watched stream of micro bubbles come through.

Bottom line is this will be great next time, but the pedal still drops. Not nearly as bad, and second pump is way firmer, but needs the abs done. Got all the green fluid with dark clouds out. Straight nearly clear fluid now. Should be minimal charge to bleed the abs.

Figure on spending $100.

Can't pull that cash out fast enough. Was quoted $200 at Strong Porsche.

And for $287, you can have the tool to do it yourself as many times as you want, plus diagnostic's, and you can sell it on when you leave Porsches. Doesn't really make sense, does it?

Don't have a PC. So it's the Durametric and a PC just to get these brakes bled. I'm glad to pay this and buy a PC laptop & Dura with my next draw from this big job I'm on. I do enough that I need the tool. Too bad it won't do my wife's VW Touareg.

I have the Durametric, but nowhere does it do anything with ABS, only reads codes, so I may have to tow mine to get the ABS bled. I am going to try the pressure bleeder tomorrow. BTW, a BIG thanks to RP17 for loaning me his pressure bleeder!! Thank you Randy!! And if anyone local needs a code read I will spread this good Karma... I'll come over and read it for you and save you $300.

All Durametric software are capable of cycling the ABS/PSM pump during brake bleeding:

http://www.planet-9.com/gallery/file...4/6/brake1.jpg

http://www.planet-9.com/gallery/file...4/6/brake2.jpg

Thank you JFP! My version doesn't look anything like yours. I called Durametric tech support and they suggested I download the latest software and that should do it. There isn't any difference in feature set in the software like you suggest. So tonight when I get home I will upgrade!! You guys rock. :dance:

OK, One hurdle complete. I upgraded my software 6.3 and the ABS functions show up!! I also determined I have the 2nd generation cable, whew.. dodged a bullet there. So... my screen looks a bit different that JFP's version 6.1. I'm a bit nervous and will proceed slowly so I won't further screw up. Stay tuned guys!

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1401747180.jpg

Please post if you just run the two pumps or the valves or what you do. Still looking at going this route.

So far I have been able to control the ABS light and the information light. That does turn on the ABS light on the dash, but clicking the off button didnt turn it off. So I cycled the ignition key off/on to clear the light. So I took my chances and clicked the booster pump on button and nothing happened, then clicked the off button. Nothing happened... no noise, no click, no pump motor noise. So to be safe I cycled the ign switch and shut down the app. I need to find a more detailed procedure to bleed. Nothing detailed enough in my Bentley service manual. Time for a cold beer and a shower :) hopefully more tomorrow.

JFP - always appreciate your posts... So, in this case...with an older Boxster does the Durametric software treat PSM and plain old Traction Control (TC) in the same manner?

My 2000S has TC, but not PSM as far as I know...

Either way- sounds like it's time for me to get the Durametric.

TIA -

Basically, yes.

Your 2000 could have PSM as that was the transitional year from TC to PSM; just remember that back then, both were options.

Not much forward progress tonight. Although I am beginning to like using the pressure bleeder (thanks again Randy). I once again attempted to "cycle" the ABS with my Durametric, but no noise, no hum, no motor noise, no click, nothing! The only thing I can do is turn on the light. I bled the brakes again and no air bubbles, and the pedal still goes to the floor, bummer. Not sure what to do next except call a tow truck. Chris

Have you flat bedded it in yet? I think I have hen solution. Need another hour to experiment. Looking good, lots of air out visibly.

not yet, I'm hoping you are my savior :)

I'm taking pics. Getting massive air out. It's the technique. Keep that power bleeder. Get 50' of 3/16 ID 5/16 OD vinyl tubing. Clean white small plastic bucket. 3 qts DOT 4. I'm taking pics now. Still watching the bubble parade.

I have maybe 15 ft of 3/16 tubing, perhaps keep the pressure bleeder going for hours? Do you pump the pedal during all this time? Is it possible you are drawing air bubbles thru the threads in the bleeder nipple, or you really getting the air out of the ABS slowly but surely?

I'm dying to know your trick. I have lost faith in the Durametric for this procedure.

I haven't yet bled my brakes as i usually make every mistake one can make when wrenching. I will usually never get it wrong again though. A motiv bleeder is on my list as i want to replace my brake lines. Good luck!

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I have definitely done this before, open the threads too much and you get a steady stream of bubbles coming in through the threads.

I am curious to see what the results are; I bled the brakes on my FJ and I have never been 100% satisfied; they did not get rock hard like the brakes on my tacomas after I bled them.

OK. With the power bleeder up to 25, open a valve with the clear tubing running up and over a spring, then down to the floor to the reservoir. Use a high-power flashlight and look through the tubing. There are micro bubbles streaming out. This is not from the bleeder screw threads, since the power bleeder is making positive pressure and fluid is weeping from those threads, hence the rag needed to catch that. After 10 brake pumps, the bubbles stop, but only because they are very fast now and they make a cloud. The bubbles slow down half way through the tube and you can see them line up on the top of the tubing. After 20-30 min of this, the micro bubbles stop or slow. Then you know that line is done. Sometimes a cloud of bubbles came through, then a large bubble, then trails of small micro bubbles.

If you re-use fluid from the reservoir, it has to sit 5 min to let it de-gas after pouring it back into the power bleeder.

I did this to my rears first. Pedal came right back, felt fine. Drove around the belt route. Got back, noticed rears wearing fine but fronts still had L & R stamps on the rotor surface...no grip from fronts at all! Got 4-6 large bubble equivalents out and they bite now, but I am still going to have Porsche bleed them tomorrow to be done with it.

It's time for me to let the professionals handle it, so I got a flat bed on the way to pick her up. I was hoping there was a simple solution, and Durametric wasn't it.

Sorry this didnt work out for you. A group of guys on this forum met up a year or so ago at Top Speed where we used two motive bleeders and we did about three or four boxsters. Kenny Boxster might correct me if Im wrong but what we did was suction out as much fluid out of the resovoir, then refilled mine with Atf blue. Placed power bleeder on battery compartment and pumped the bleeder. That created the pressure to bleed the brakes while double checking that it doesnt go dry. Open up the bleeder valves starting from the furthest brake from master cylinder. (Left rear?) Watch for new fluid to appear un mixed then close valve and wipe up spills. We had some alcohol pads, didnt want to ruin those red painted calipers.. No pumping brakes and no mushy brake pedal when done. Motive bleeder is the way to go.

$139 to flush and bleed. Found significant air.

Shuttle to & from shop in 2014 Cayanne Turbo S.

We shall see! Hawk rear ceramics in today.

I agree to Motive bleeder is simple to use. I screwed up when I didn't top off the reservoir and sucked in a massive air bubble.. that's where we are now... air trapped in the ABS and a Durametric that was "supposed" to cycle the ABS. She's going to German European Imports to get fixed.

Randy, I need to return the bleeder back to you. Any time you need Durametric for anything (except cycling the ABS lol) you have a free ticket with me anytime. :cheers: Chris

$929.38 cents later My brakes were bled and power booster replaced (not including the tow truck). German European Imports in Plano did the work. I thought that was a bit pricey, but I desperately needed to get this fixed. Sam was originally going to charge me $1,200 after taking a look it, and I told him I'll call the tow truck and come get my car. He said he'd work with me and get the part cheaper. So $929 was the deal. I got my car back filthy dirty as it was left outside. I would have felt a little better if I got it back clean like it was the day I had it towed. I also noticed I got drip stains on my headlight lens I suspect brake fluid was spilled, and really feeling sick to my stomach. I can't prove they did it unless I noticed it right when I picked up the car (but it was filthy dirty). The car sat in my garage for a week as I was out of town, and discovered the stains last night. I'm now considering selling the car.

for the record... It is possible that I could have caused the stains myself, but I really have no way of knowing. I was extremely careful when handling the power bleeder. I think I would have noticed this already if I would have caused it.

So you had a bad master cylinder? Although you claim the brakes worked prior to tinkering with it. Some indies are just messy. You can try buying the 3m headlight repair and grinding out the imperfection.

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I'm not saying it won't take aeons to bleed with a long hose and gravity, but its free and you can do it by yourself.

Its interesting looking at this software and the control over the whole brake system. I feel like If the resovoir were bigger, the car could almost be programmed to bleed out the bubbles itself :)

By the way if your fluid is green and you open the cap and see patches of what looks like oil, water or water lillies, you are already WAY overdue for your brake fluid. Its typically done every 2 to 4 years on a non-track car, though in my city I've seen people go over ten years. Its magic that their brakes didn't outright fail.