What went wrong here?

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by scottvd

Disclaimer: I'm super new to MT and driving anything with more power than a 2000 Subaru Forester.

Second day of driving my Box I did EXACTLY what this guy did while making a left hand turn (driving hard obviously). What went wrong? I think I lost traction when I shifted into second while turning or something? Came close to wrecking - wound up 180 in wrong direction finally stopped next to the other cars turning left in the opposing target lane.. Super embarrassing too!

Just saw your intro post, does your 2004 have PSM switch in center of the dash?

[scottvd]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

Just saw your intro post, does your 2004 have PSM switch in center of the dash?

No, don't have the PSM option on this Box. :/

[woodsman]

Originally Posted by scottvd

No, don't have the PSM option on this Box. :/

I thought PSM became standard in 2002???

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by woodsman

I thought PSM became standard in 2002???

Option starting in 2000. One of the reasons a DME upgrade was required.

[scottvd]

Thx San rensho, byprodriver, and thstone for the insight!

[Tucker2]

Honestly.....where you are at now....go to your local indoor/outdoor carting place and spend some money. Learn about what it feels like to loose and gain control in a very safe environment. It's a place where you can drive *as fast as you can* and not cost yourself and arm and a leg if something goes wrong. You need to learn the fundamentals of car control. You're driving a Porsche. Respect that.

My own '02 BS is having issues with cold weather where the PSM goes to sleep until the car is warm. I thought the warning light was a bunch of BS. I was wrong. Came around a nice fun corner in the wet last weekend and gunned it and I lost the car. It took me *spinning* the wheel...not a correction...but full on spinning the wheel once in each direction until I managed to get her under control....right as I came into view to a police car. Oye. Lesson 1032 learned in life.

Learn car control. It's a biggie.

[rfuerst911sc]

Join your local PCA or SCCA and run as many autocross events as you can. Great way to learn car control, improve as a driver and meet some great folks. Usually at the PCA events there are instructors that can REALLY help you learn your cars limits. Don't take this the wrong way but just your asking on this forum what happened tells me you are NOT ready to go out on a road course at high speed. Get as many AX's under your belt at relatively slow speed and learn your car, suspension, brakes and tires plus yourself ! Then go out and get on a road course. Ultimately the goal is to have fun, be safe, become a better driver and above all return home in one piece

[Frodo]

Don't know how chilly it gets in Oakdale, CA, this time of year, but if you're riding on summer performance tires, temperature can definitely be a factor as well. When shopping for tires on tirerack.com, with these tires you'll typically note the warning: "Like all summer tires, it is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

I learned this lesson the hard way going out to grab some take-out. It was cool, low-40s or high 30s, which generally hadn't been a problem for me---I knew to take it a bit easier under such circumstances. This time, however, it started to rain gently shortly after I left home. Cold + Wet + summer performance tires is a REALLY bad combo!

[scottvd]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Join your local PCA or SCCA and run as many autocross events as you can. Great way to learn car control, improve as a driver and meet some great folks. Usually at the PCA events there are instructors that can REALLY help you learn your cars limits. Don't take this the wrong way but just your asking on this forum what happened tells me you are NOT ready to go out on a road course at high speed. Get as many AX's under your belt at relatively slow speed and learn your car, suspension, brakes and tires plus yourself ! Then go out and get on a road course. Ultimately the goal is to have fun, be safe, become a better driver and above all return home in one piece

^ ya I need the 101 course for sure. Been reading through the "What I learned on the track" sticky, that's helpful too. An acquaintance of mine is really involved with SCCA - he just told me about it yesterday and said I should join. Thx for the input! (:

Don't know how chilly it gets in Oakdale, CA, this time of year, but if you're riding on summer performance tires, temperature can definitely be a factor as well. When shopping for tires on tirerack.com, with these tires you'll typically note the warning: "Like all summer tires, it is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."

For sure - thanks - good thing to keep in mind. Temperatures are about 35 at night and 65 during day right now, dry. I'm not even sure what tires I have on, PO said they were same as the "stock" tires that came with the car. Thx again.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by scottvd

^ ya I need the 101 course for sure. Been reading through the "What I learned on the track" sticky, that's helpful too. An acquaintance of mine is really involved with SCCA - he just told me about it yesterday and said I should join. Thx for the input! (:

Autocross is much more useful in terms of real world driving. The mix of layouts is limited due to the size of lots and after about a dozen events you've pretty much seen everything you're going to see: six pin, four pin, three pin, left, right, slalom, Chicago box, haripin, no pin... you get the point.
While on a road course you're learning to be smooth with long pauses (straights) in between. With autocross you're trying to get from A to B as quickly as possible while upsetting the balance of the car as little as possible...as Randy Pobst (professional driver who is a big autocrosser) once said "its basically connecting a series of power slides". Sometimes smoother is better sometimes its not because you don't have a long straight to make up deficit. But the point is that most real-world situations where you need to save your hide will more closely resemble something you've done a hundred times in autocross than nailing the esses at your local track. And because of the number of turns and corners are so much higher in autocross you learn to manage the brake with much more practice. One of the great things about autocrossing the Boxster is that you see that this isn't a "just a cheap Porsche" but perhaps the best braking paired with the most neutral handling you can get out of any road car no matter the price. When people talk down this car right away I know they don't know much about actual driving. Most of the time they just know plenty about buying cars.

The next best thing is to do some karting. Find an "arrive and drive" place near you. This will help you "see the course", I think driving is more about what you do with your eyes than what you do with hands and feets. Everything follows from the eyes. Plus you'll get more seat time than in autocross or that once in a while track day. I was karting before I could ride a bicycle. Those were the days, someone else paying for your fun...

[Mark_T]

This hasn't been my experience with the Boxster at all. There have been a couple of times when I have got on the gas too soon coming out of a corner or cloverleaf and the back end has come loose. A slight lift, a quick counter-steer, and it snaps back to straight again, ready for the throttle. I've never had a car that corrects from an oversteer slide as smoothly and easily as this one. Maybe this is because I am running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires, although they are 5 seasons old and getting pretty hard.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

This hasn't been my experience with the Boxster at all. There have been a couple of times when I have got on the gas too soon coming out of a corner or cloverleaf and the back end has come loose. A slight lift, a quick counter-steer, and it snaps back to straight again, ready for the throttle. I've never had a car that corrects from an oversteer slide as smoothly and easily as this one. Maybe this is because I am running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires, although they are 5 seasons old and getting pretty hard.

+1
Boxster is one of the best street vehicles ever made to do what you direct it to do. Unfortunately if you give the wrong directions it follows those also without prejudice.

All modern vehicles are designed to go straight thru steering axis inclination & proper castor settings. Therefore the moment I feel I have lost control I release my grip on the steering wheel allowing it to spin freely between my hands til it self centers & the car is going straight again. Now I can make minimal steering input to regain intended direction of travel.

[stephen wilson]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

All modern vehicles are designed to go straight thru steering axis inclination & proper castor settings. Therefore the moment I feel I have lost control I release my grip on the steering wheel allowing it to spin freely between my hands til it self centers & the car is going straight again. Now I can make minimal steering input to regain intended direction of travel.

I've done that when I need to take steering out quickly when "snapping back" after counter-steering for a slide, I think that's what you mean? I'm sure you can't just let go when the tail steps out.

Scott, were you shifting from 1st to 2nd while turning, or from 3rd to 2nd?

[TeamOxford]

AXs and DEs are great for getting seat time; for learning a course or a new car. They will NOT erase incorrect driving techniques.

IMHO, it's best to learn proper high speed driving techniques from a qualified instructor.

Once one learns the basics, then any further driving events aid the driver in mastering these techniques.

And just to be CLEAR, drive with your brain..................

TO

p.s. I thought alangning's post was a hoot!

[stephen wilson]

I also think some reading is mandatory. You have to understand the physics that define how a car responds to your inputs.

[scottvd]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

I've done that when I need to take steering out quickly when "snapping back" after counter-steering for a slide, I think that's what you mean? I'm sure you can't just let go when the tail steps out.

Scott, were you shifting from 1st to 2nd while turning, or from 3rd to 2nd?

Tons of good input here, thanks again everyone. I was shifting from 1st to 2nd. I had taking 1st up to circa 6400rpm, shift to second came just when I was really engaging the steering wheel for the turn..

[haz]

Originally Posted by scottvd

Tons of good input here, thanks again everyone. I was shifting from 1st to 2nd. I had taking 1st up to circa 6400rpm, shift to second came just when I was really engaging the steering wheel for the turn..

Oooh... recipe for disaster there. Why rev up to as high as 6400 at all when planning on turning the steeringwheel AND shifting up? You were basically asking for it, sorry. Luckily no damage, right?

[LAP1DOUG]

Lots of good advice here. I would strongly recommend learning at on an auto-x course where the consequences of a spin "usually" aren't that bad. When you get to the point where you are intensionally shifting weight to the front to start rotation, and then catching it with throttle application to shift weight rearward, you have arrived.

That said, you should have alignment checked to make sure nothing is off. Make sure you have at least zero toe to slight toe-in at the rear, otherwise it can be very twitchy. Also make sure the rear camber is good. I like to run about -2.5 degrees at the rear. Make sure nothing is binding with the sway bar that would make the spring rate suddenly go up, and finally check that the tires have decent tread matching front to rear. Some tires (Dunlop ZI's for instance) are noted for loosing traction when they get to the very end of their tread life.