Not to beat a dead Porsche horse, but reliability...

[rondocap]

Interesting comments, guys. I just found it funny that Porsche was ranked up there with Lexus and I've heard numerous times that they are considered bullet proof. Must be the new cars, then.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by rondocap

Interesting comments, guys. I just found it funny that Porsche was ranked up there with Lexus and I've heard numerous times that they are considered bullet proof. Must be the new cars, then.

This is only because most Porsches are not daily drivers and record little mileage relative to a Lexus. If Porsche reliability were ranked only on its cars that were daily drivers like the Cayenne, they would be very, very far from Lexus.

sports car reliability has to be compared to other sports cars.
Honda built a good, reliable sports car (a legit one, not just a 'sporty coupe') and it wasn't profitable enough to continue.

[bglz42]

Rondocap, what are you comparing them to?

[Boxster101]

If you want above average reliability, lots of fun driving, and a bargain, buy a Boxster.
If you are totally focused on reliability, buy a f*#$*ing Toyota already!!

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by Boxster101

If you want above average reliability, lots of fun driving, and a bargain, buy a Boxster.
If you are totally focused on reliability, buy a f*#$*ing Toyota already!!

Party Pooper . Actually I do own a Toyota and a Porsche, both great cars, I just think I prefer not to drive my Tundra into a twisty at 60mph .

Glad I'm not grouchy today.

[always porsche]

My last five motors have all been porsches, three 944's a 1976 930 Turbo (Flat Nose conversion) and presently my 2001 Box, all extremely reliable and even more enjoyable.
Look after your porker and it will be good to you !!

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by Boxster101

If you want above average reliability, lots of fun driving, and a bargain, buy a Boxster.
If you are totally focused on reliability, buy a f*#$*ing Toyota already!!

Exactly. Besides my 2000 Boxster S that gets regular track and AX time, I also have a 2007 BMW Z4 M coupe. Fun car, but the issue with those is early rod bearing failure. We have our IMS issues. Also had my water pump pulley shaft break. Only indication that there is a problem is the battery light comes on. Once it does, you are about 2 minutes away from a warped head and new engine. It's sad that these kinds of cars seem to be plagued...

[rondocap]

Actually - post 2006 Porsches do seem to be more reliable, IMS issues being more resolved and other things of that nature.

You guys are right - Porsches are not typical cars, and thus cannot really be compared very well.

One thing remains objectively though; the IMS issue, as rare as it may or may not be, is definitely a deal killer for me when considering pre-2006 Porsches.

[coreseller]

I've alluded to my cousin here before, he has a 1999 base Box and has not had an issue with it since buying it one year old, drives it quite a bit too. Doesn't know what an IMS is and could not care less, I frankly envy him, he has the right attitude.

Think about all of the preventative dollars spent on cars or the proactive repairs performed as part of a "While I'm in there" project was done. Not knocking it, probably a lot of catastrophes avoided and I'm guilty of doing said "repairs" myself. I just can't help to wonder how much more some people would enjoy their P-Cars if they didn't browse these forums and start to worry as a result.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by coreseller

I've alluded to my cousin here before, he has a 1999 base Box and has not had an issue with it since buying it one year old, drives it quite a bit too. Doesn't know what an IMS is and could not care less, I frankly envy him, he has the right attitude.

Think about all of the preventative dollars spent on cars or the proactive repairs performed as part of a "While I'm in there" project was done. Not knocking it, probably a lot of catastrophes avoided and I'm guilty of doing said "repairs" myself. I just can't help to wonder how much more some people would enjoy their P-Cars if they didn't browse these forums and start to worry as a result.

I can't disagree with you, and I have worried here or there and been mislead but in general I think a lot of folks are like me, they totally love doing a projects for the heck of it. I bought mine to drive and take apart and put back together. It cost a lot but was worth every dime. Sounds like you might have done the same.

Clearly there are threads that do spread fear. Possibly it was correct when it comes to single row IMS but certainly not double row. And replacing water pumps every 3 years with as little miles as these cars drive, seem overkill. Heck I know I was more concerned the water pump I put in might not be as good as the one I took out, but I sure enjoyed doing it.

I think this is a good subject. It's too bad there isn't enough statistical data out there to compare true reliability to what is posted on this forum. Threads like this are the only time we hear folks say "Huh, mine has been bullet proof". Clearly many folks join the forum because they had a problem, but others like me joined to be part of the community and learn.

Back on topic...if one follows the forums a lot there are certainly several areas of issues, are they more then the industry norm for that period...I donno. If so then to the original posters question, yes reliability would be a concern. I will say sometimes I see members post problem after problem, and the talk of how much money to set aside for planned problems and then wonder did I just get lucky and get a great car or on average do most folks have more problems than I did. From watching the forums it sure does seem to be the roll of the dice. I think repair costs then comes into play, someone might say, well if I get a bad one it will cost a fortune to fix.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

Clearly there are threads that do spread fear. Possibly it was correct when it comes to single row IMS but certainly not double row. And replacing water pumps every 3 years with as little miles as these cars drive.

Owners who let a dual row car sit for long periods, registering little mileage while infrequently chaging the oil would be mistaken in brushing off the IMS issue because they have two rows. Give a dual row bearing enough time and it will catch up to a single row on failure.


As far as the waterpump, I think its more an issue of mileage.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Owners who let a dual row car sit for long periods, registering little mileage while infrequently chaging the oil would be mistaken in brushing off the IMS issue because they have two rows. Give a dual row bearing enough time and it will catch up to a single row on failure.


As far as the waterpump, I think its more an issue of mileage.

I don't think there is data to prove this. The previous owner of my car changed the oil every 12 to 15k miles and sometimes the car sat for years without driving it. My double row was fine. Even the class action filed shows double rows to be much less of an issue. Who knows, these are just my thoughts .

[evo-r]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Owners who let a dual row car sit for long periods, registering little mileage while infrequently chaging the oil would be mistaken in brushing off the IMS issue because they have two rows. Give a dual row bearing enough time and it will catch up to a single row on failure.


As far as the waterpump, I think its more an issue of mileage.

Off topic, at what mileage should one replace their water pump?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by rondocap

Actually - post 2006 Porsches do seem to be more reliable, IMS issues being more resolved and other things of that nature.

You guys are right - Porsches are not typical cars, and thus cannot really be compared very well.

One thing remains objectively though; the IMS issue, as rare as it may or may not be, is definitely a deal killer for me when considering pre-2006 Porsches.

I would be doing quiet the opposite in your shoes. 97-99 Have very low likelyhood and if you are a worrying type you can have the factory IMS replaced easily in a day.

For the most part, 2000-2004 are most likely to have an issue **BUT** you can also easily have it replaced in a day without splitting open the engine. The issue becomes moot for less than I spent on my last waterpump/rotor job.

2005 You have to take down the transmission to verify if its single row or the not-serviceable bearing. Which means you'll be crossing your fingers until its time to change the clutch, no sense doing all the work just to verify and not replace the clutch.

2006-2008 have two kinds of bearings. The free one from the factory or the $7,000 - $10,000 kind that you'll get once you split open the engine. These revised bearings have been much, much better but a sealed bearing will still need to be replaced, especially one that did not have proper care/oil changes. So once that free bearing has run its course get out the piggy bank.

If I'm buying today I go either 2000-2004 3.2 or save my money until the DFI engine cars come down from post-warranty depreciation.
Realistically, you only need to replace the IMS bearing once even if you don't replace it with a fancy one. Other's can chime in but I've yet to hear of someone who dumped the factory bearing and still had an issue on bearing #2.

[jcb986]

My 2000 S with a 3.2 liter and has 75,000 miles on it. The only part failure has been the AOS and and axle seal at the differential. Gas, tires, brakes, oil changes...typical maintenance which I do myself. Car is 13 years old, wholesale is $9,000, retail $14,000 to $17,000 in good times. The 3.2 engine is stronger and better built than the 2.5 and 2.7 in my opinion. Also mine is a Tip, not stick. Seems most failures have been mostly stick cars. By it right and drive it.

Forte note: I have a Gravely mower and it had a 10.5 hp engine that lasted 3 years and threw a rod. I replaced it with a 13.5 hp engine. Big difference, the old engine struggled, the new engine has no problems at handling its job. Wonder how many did fail do to being stressed out doing its job that it was not designed to do. Hum.

[bglz42]

I just can't help to wonder how much more some people would enjoy their P-Cars if they didn't browse these forums and start to worry as a result.

BINGO!

In every auto forum, there exists an "IMS" that keeps owners awake at night ... in the 12v Cummins it is the KDP, (Killer Dowel Pin). In the 24v, it is the dreaded "6" block. Beemers have main bearing issues, ad nauseum...

Ran into an old friend who owns a 99 996. Another "What is IMS?" guy... never heard of it...

I choose to see it as a rare non-issue. I will maintain it and drive it and enjoy it. I do not think there is a better built vehicle on the road...

Cheers, Jim

[Eric G]

When I bought my Boxster it was a purchase of passion. I had and still do love the design and performance of this car. At the time (mine is a 1998 that had 89K on the clock) and it still appeared to run solid...however, I do have a brain and have the ability to analyze a situation. Anyone who purchases a used car (no matter how few or many miles) must fully anticipate that the previous owner(s) have at some point had not cared for the car and that parts in the car can and will fail regardless of how they were cared for.

In short, I came into my deal knowing whether it was a Porsche, BMW, Ferrari or whatever I purchased, it was going to need work and that requires cash. I think anyone who is purchasing a used sports car and has zero budget for doing any work is foolish and foolhardy. Something will inevitably break. As such, I had fully planed before the purchase to go through the car and return it to a "like new" condition so I could have full confidence that no matter where I drove it...it will get me there and back. Why? Remember my statement above...I love this car.

Over the course of four months I replaced everything I could get my hands on which amounted to purchasing double the value I paid for the car in parts alone (as I did the work myself)...and guess what? I know have a car that runs like new and provides the type of ride and performance that I fully expect this car to give me. If you have no mechanical skills and expect to drive one of these cars, you my friend are trapped to shop rate labor charges and it is going to cost you to get it fixed.

During this process of rebuilding my Boxster, I found some parts that were slightly worn, others on the brink of failure. Giving this, should I therefore determine that the car is a piece of junk and should be scraped or deride the entire line of Porsche vehicles? No. This is the nature of performance based vehicles. Most people want to believe that they are Sunday go to meeting never fail types of vehicles. They are not. The dollars you are paying for these cars is the performance they are giving you and the engineering that goes in behind that. Is the IMS an issues...yes; did Porsche handle the situation correctly...no; is hind sight 20/20...absolutely. But remember, you have two choices: You either drive the car of your passion or not. Porsche is not the only performance car ever made that has issues, nor will it be the last manufacturer to ever have issues. It is the nature of the game.

Life is to short to drive cheap cars, drink cheap wine and spend your time pissed about things that ad no value to living.

[RawleyD]

Even if my car were to burn up tomorrow due to IMS/atomic detonation , the $10k I have invested in it was worth it. Every cent..

[rondocap]

From a lot of research for my own personal needs - I've come to the conclusion that at least for me, the 2006 and 2007 Boxsters are the best. 2005, unless you plan to do the IMS upgrade, are to be avoided as they seem to have the highest cases for failure. I have rarely if ever seen a 2006+ that had a failure.

Case in point: My 986 I had bought for around $13k, and in great condition at 54k miles. But very quickly the plastic window started to deteriorate, and I felt that I wanted to also do the IMS. These two items alone, along with some minor maintenance, and I was approaching the $4k mark quickly. A newer Boxster will eliminate at least the IMS and plastic window issue right off the bat, and they are now in the high teens and lower $20k's for a decent example.

Anyway, it's a matter of paying now or paying later: A cheaper Boxster may need some items a newer one will not.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by rondocap

From a lot of research for my own personal needs - I've come to the conclusion that at least for me, the 2006 and 2007 Boxsters are the best. 2005, unless you plan to do the IMS upgrade, are to be avoided as they seem to have the highest cases for failure. I have rarely if ever seen a 2006+ that had a failure.

To other potential buyers reading the above, the IMS "reliability" imho should not be the primary consideration when it comes to picking a pre-09 Boxster. If you are going to decide based on the IMS (arguable, since other engine issues are more prevalent), then you should look for IMS "serviceability" instead. 2006 -2008 Boxsters only get two kinds of IMS bearings, the free one from the factory that has proven to be decent over the first 100K miles, and the $7-10K IMS bearing you'll be paying for to split the engine open in order to do the bearing swap once the factory unit is well past the sell by date... on account of the fact that sealed bearings are not lifetime parts. With a pre-2005 car, you don't have to pull the engine, thus the factory IMS bearing can be swapped in a day, when you replace the clutch. Personally speaking, I'd reather replace that bearing at a regular interval than to spend my nights crossing my fingers.