Not to beat a dead Porsche horse, but reliability...

[rondocap]

Actually - post 2006 Porsches do seem to be more reliable, IMS issues being more resolved and other things of that nature.

You guys are right - Porsches are not typical cars, and thus cannot really be compared very well.

One thing remains objectively though; the IMS issue, as rare as it may or may not be, is definitely a deal killer for me when considering pre-2006 Porsches.

[coreseller]

I've alluded to my cousin here before, he has a 1999 base Box and has not had an issue with it since buying it one year old, drives it quite a bit too. Doesn't know what an IMS is and could not care less, I frankly envy him, he has the right attitude.

Think about all of the preventative dollars spent on cars or the proactive repairs performed as part of a "While I'm in there" project was done. Not knocking it, probably a lot of catastrophes avoided and I'm guilty of doing said "repairs" myself. I just can't help to wonder how much more some people would enjoy their P-Cars if they didn't browse these forums and start to worry as a result.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by coreseller

I've alluded to my cousin here before, he has a 1999 base Box and has not had an issue with it since buying it one year old, drives it quite a bit too. Doesn't know what an IMS is and could not care less, I frankly envy him, he has the right attitude.

Think about all of the preventative dollars spent on cars or the proactive repairs performed as part of a "While I'm in there" project was done. Not knocking it, probably a lot of catastrophes avoided and I'm guilty of doing said "repairs" myself. I just can't help to wonder how much more some people would enjoy their P-Cars if they didn't browse these forums and start to worry as a result.

I can't disagree with you, and I have worried here or there and been mislead but in general I think a lot of folks are like me, they totally love doing a projects for the heck of it. I bought mine to drive and take apart and put back together. It cost a lot but was worth every dime. Sounds like you might have done the same.

Clearly there are threads that do spread fear. Possibly it was correct when it comes to single row IMS but certainly not double row. And replacing water pumps every 3 years with as little miles as these cars drive, seem overkill. Heck I know I was more concerned the water pump I put in might not be as good as the one I took out, but I sure enjoyed doing it.

I think this is a good subject. It's too bad there isn't enough statistical data out there to compare true reliability to what is posted on this forum. Threads like this are the only time we hear folks say "Huh, mine has been bullet proof". Clearly many folks join the forum because they had a problem, but others like me joined to be part of the community and learn.

Back on topic...if one follows the forums a lot there are certainly several areas of issues, are they more then the industry norm for that period...I donno. If so then to the original posters question, yes reliability would be a concern. I will say sometimes I see members post problem after problem, and the talk of how much money to set aside for planned problems and then wonder did I just get lucky and get a great car or on average do most folks have more problems than I did. From watching the forums it sure does seem to be the roll of the dice. I think repair costs then comes into play, someone might say, well if I get a bad one it will cost a fortune to fix.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

Clearly there are threads that do spread fear. Possibly it was correct when it comes to single row IMS but certainly not double row. And replacing water pumps every 3 years with as little miles as these cars drive.

Owners who let a dual row car sit for long periods, registering little mileage while infrequently chaging the oil would be mistaken in brushing off the IMS issue because they have two rows. Give a dual row bearing enough time and it will catch up to a single row on failure.


As far as the waterpump, I think its more an issue of mileage.

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Owners who let a dual row car sit for long periods, registering little mileage while infrequently chaging the oil would be mistaken in brushing off the IMS issue because they have two rows. Give a dual row bearing enough time and it will catch up to a single row on failure.


As far as the waterpump, I think its more an issue of mileage.

I don't think there is data to prove this. The previous owner of my car changed the oil every 12 to 15k miles and sometimes the car sat for years without driving it. My double row was fine. Even the class action filed shows double rows to be much less of an issue. Who knows, these are just my thoughts .

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

I don't think there is data to prove this. The previous owner of my car changed the oil every 12 to 15k miles and sometimes the car sat for years without driving it. My double row was fine. Even the class action filed shows double rows to be much less of an issue. Who knows, these are just my thoughts .

certainly no data but look at the causes of single row failures... a dual row's fortification does not eliminate these, they simply better endure.

Which means a dual row bearing is simply afforded more time to replace it. The timing of the lawsuit has come when most Boxsters are only now creeping over 100K miles. Those dual row cars that have been neglected and are still on their factory bearing will start to fail with far greater frequency over the second 100K miles. So Porsche's timing in settling this matter could not have been better.

[evo-r]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Owners who let a dual row car sit for long periods, registering little mileage while infrequently chaging the oil would be mistaken in brushing off the IMS issue because they have two rows. Give a dual row bearing enough time and it will catch up to a single row on failure.


As far as the waterpump, I think its more an issue of mileage.

Off topic, at what mileage should one replace their water pump?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by evo-r

Off topic, at what mileage should one replace their water pump?

I believe Flat6 have posted that it should be done every 50K miles. Or maybe that was Wayne Dempsey in "101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster". Mine lasted 80K miles. But I think the logic is to replace it while its still in its 'sweet spot' and not on the downslope. Seems like airline maintenance logic -- hence why flying is by far the safest mode of travel.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I believe Flat6 have posted that it should be done every 50K miles. Or maybe that was Wayne Dempsey in "101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster". Mine lasted 80K miles. But I think the logic is to replace it while its still in its 'sweet spot' and not on the downslope. Seems like airline maintenance logic -- hence why flying is by far the safest mode of travel.

I have never stated any mileage for water pump replacement. Thats because the pump is in service 24-7 whether the engine is operating or not. Its purely time based and my directive is every 36 months for my engines.

Cooling system flushes carried out annually extend life, because the Ph level of the coolant is what attacks the pump and leads to failure. Distilled water is also a key to keeping Ph levels in check longer.

We are working with JGR and Lubrizol on a conditioner for the cooling system that will help to keep the Ph level down and double as a lubricant for the pump. It just takes forever to gather real data that proves that it actually does work.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by rondocap

Actually - post 2006 Porsches do seem to be more reliable, IMS issues being more resolved and other things of that nature.

You guys are right - Porsches are not typical cars, and thus cannot really be compared very well.

One thing remains objectively though; the IMS issue, as rare as it may or may not be, is definitely a deal killer for me when considering pre-2006 Porsches.

I would be doing quiet the opposite in your shoes. 97-99 Have very low likelyhood and if you are a worrying type you can have the factory IMS replaced easily in a day.

For the most part, 2000-2004 are most likely to have an issue **BUT** you can also easily have it replaced in a day without splitting open the engine. The issue becomes moot for less than I spent on my last waterpump/rotor job.

2005 You have to take down the transmission to verify if its single row or the not-serviceable bearing. Which means you'll be crossing your fingers until its time to change the clutch, no sense doing all the work just to verify and not replace the clutch.

2006-2008 have two kinds of bearings. The free one from the factory or the $7,000 - $10,000 kind that you'll get once you split open the engine. These revised bearings have been much, much better but a sealed bearing will still need to be replaced, especially one that did not have proper care/oil changes. So once that free bearing has run its course get out the piggy bank.

If I'm buying today I go either 2000-2004 3.2 or save my money until the DFI engine cars come down from post-warranty depreciation.
Realistically, you only need to replace the IMS bearing once even if you don't replace it with a fancy one. Other's can chime in but I've yet to hear of someone who dumped the factory bearing and still had an issue on bearing #2.

[jcb986]

My 2000 S with a 3.2 liter and has 75,000 miles on it. The only part failure has been the AOS and and axle seal at the differential. Gas, tires, brakes, oil changes...typical maintenance which I do myself. Car is 13 years old, wholesale is $9,000, retail $14,000 to $17,000 in good times. The 3.2 engine is stronger and better built than the 2.5 and 2.7 in my opinion. Also mine is a Tip, not stick. Seems most failures have been mostly stick cars. By it right and drive it.

Forte note: I have a Gravely mower and it had a 10.5 hp engine that lasted 3 years and threw a rod. I replaced it with a 13.5 hp engine. Big difference, the old engine struggled, the new engine has no problems at handling its job. Wonder how many did fail do to being stressed out doing its job that it was not designed to do. Hum.