What is the name/manufacture of the sin bearing?

[Jager]

There are a couple methods of detecting failing bearing assemblies that were developed as preventative maintenance practice for factory and shop machines. I am anxious to learn what epapp has to offer the automotive world so I can go buy that 997 I’ve been keeping an eye on!

http://www.mobiusinstitute.com/articles.aspx?id=2088

Using accelerometers or using a broadband pickup and heterodyning for our ears to hear are interesting thoughts but I think would be a challenge on internal combustible engines (with all the other noises and moving parts) but if one could be installed on the IMS bearing cover it might work… OK, I’m off to the lab to develop.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Jager

There are a couple methods of detecting failing bearing assemblies that were developed as preventative maintenance practice for factory and shop machines. I am anxious to learn what epapp has to offer the automotive world so I can go buy that 997 I’ve been keeping an eye on!

Detecting rolling element bearing faults with vibration analysis

Using accelerometers or using a broadband pickup and heterodyning for our ears to hear are interesting thoughts but I think would be a challenge on internal combustible engines (with all the other noises and moving parts) but if one could be installed on the IMS bearing cover it might work… OK, I’m off to the lab to develop.

Works on machinery that are heavy, grounded and has a constant rpm. Performing vibration's wave spectrum "analysis" in a dynamic environment (fluctuating rpm being one alone) requires heavily formulated algorithm. Not to mention that the system would need to go through a serious adaptation/learning cycle each time it is boot-up. Your Porsche would cost $150,000 (min) more if it had a such smart system attached to it.

Still cheaper to buy a second hand engine imo

[Jake Raby]

We utilized vibration analysis to try and create trend data for pinpointing failing bearings in 2007-2008. It was worthless! After putting equipment in the hands of dealers seeing 50+ M96 powered cars per week we could not gather any information that was reliable. Dual mass flywheels are enough by themselves to create variances in harmonics.

It was difficult enough to use this type of equipment when testing aircraft (Helicopters) utilizing iterations per second measurement values. Half the time we were better off setting up blade trim the old fashioned way with trim tabs, targets on the blades and hanging ourselves out the crew door with a strobe light to measure the blade paths to set track and balance.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

.... old fashioned way ........ hanging ourselves out the crew door with a strobe light to measure the blade paths to set track and balance.

and that, is what distinguish a true blood engineer from the other ones that otherwise are only good at reading English (e.g. technology datasheets).

Bare bone physics, simplicity and common sense always win

epapp needs to reinvent the bearing

[Nine8Six]

epapp if one day you fancy being taken seriously; the hint is "controlled magnetic levitation". You'd sell so many IMS Retrofit kit believe me

Or rotational stabilization magnetic levitation, not sure forgot....

[rp17]

New ideas is something we should never suppress. If we do that and just go with the flow, we become a nation of dummies. So think outside the box and question and improve everything. Besides if this idea of his doesn't work, the cost to us was nothing. But it could lead to a solution for something else.


Exanple.... Two Scientist were working on a drug for high blood pressure iirc. Turned out it didn't work as predicted. But what turned up as well was all the test patients had the same side effects from the drug which was an erection. Ditched the original plan for that drug and started selling some version of that formula as Viagra. From what I remember.

The Guardian is a very good product imho. But lets see what this guys got. Hit or miss I just ask that you be respectful to vets on this forum.

[mikefocke]

If the Guardian says that your engine is shedding ferrous material, that is all that you need to know. Stop. Flatbed. Get it to an engine internals expert and determine the cause. You don't care which of the failure modes is triggering the diagnosis at that point. Because of the warning, you may be able to stop the rotation in time to save the engine from getting little pieces all through the smaller oil passages and thus making the engine a scrap candidate or a complete rebuild candidate ... both of which are perhaps beyond the financial willingness of most. Where the single failure repair might be in time to save the engine and be financially affordable.

A diagnostic test that detected only the IMS failure could leave the engine exposed to the other failure modes some of which could lead to things that could be detected but not by a test for only one thing.

If you are thinking vibration analysis, I know several people who tried it. May you have better luck than they had.

[The Radium King]

perhaps measure static deflection of the shaft? he seems to be focussing on the lateral loading of the bearing, and insinuating that his test will provide info without constant monitoring. this way you could run the test on an engine that isn't running and remove a lot of the variables. of course, uncertain how much deflection a failing bearing would exhibit, and what role deteriorating chain tensioners, etc., would play ...

regardless, lots of trash talk going on here. people appear to not like his attitude, so respond with worse attitudes? I think mark t even threatened a backhand? poor.

[Mark_T]

I did no such thing. And I'm very interested in what he has to show, if he does have something to show. It was just that "real engineering" crack that was such a slap in the face to so many people here that set me off on the guy.

[epapp]

It seems like the only people who got upset were the ones who are scared that they don't actually practice real engineering?


...I'm just kidding...I'd rather not get my 'ear' slapped again.

But seriously, yes I have a good idea with which smart people 'reasonably skilled in the art' think will work (anyone with patents knows what I'm talking about ).

My PI and I are obviously very busy, he wants to meet in the next few days for more discussion on the bearing topic/review what I have on it so far, in addition to selecting my method of attack. So yes the ice is breaking with the project, but I never promised it would be implemented soon

[Nine8Six]

Then, friend, if not real-time oil analysis & monitoring, or, vibration waveform algorithms, then, if not xray, your only last chance to make real engineering real is poking the AE signals of the bearing (acoustic emissions). High sensitivity magnetic dB mic uplinked to a custom iPhone app?

Am I going to win anything by being the only one guessing what's to be guessed?!

[Shehadehd]

Hey Epapp, I have some old skateboard bearings you can use to test your system on. Oh, and the bearing on my Dremel is about to go to.

[epapp]

Originally Posted by Shehadehd

Hey Epapp, I have some old skateboard bearings you can use to test your system on. Oh, and the bearing on my Dremel is about to go to.

Where is it going to go to? Oh, you meant 'bearing on my dremel is about to go, too'. Seems like you left college a bit too early . It's ok, Jeff saved you a seat in English 101.


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[Shehadehd]

Originally Posted by epapp

Where is it going to go to? Oh, you meant 'bearing on my dremel is about to go, too'. Seems like you left college a bit too early . It's ok, Jeff saved you a seat in English 101.


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I was leaving that extra 'O' for you... Which you used "Where is it going to go to? Oh..."
So thank you.

[ganseg]

Originally Posted by Topless

This might be the most complete thread on IMS including part #s of various model years. Feelyx was developing a direct oil feed when his patent was bought out. Lots of good info on bearings and failure modes here.

Who has done an IMS change (New Oil Fed Design Idea) - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

Who ended up selling this design - particularly this aspect:

Post 169: "...What I am developing is a setup that takes the swivel point from inside the shaft, and moves it to outside the case. With my setup, the bearing insert has 2 steps that support the shaft on different levels to make it rigid in the shaft, the bearing is supported in the case halves, where as the original setup, the chains pull on the bearing and shaft (like a lever) causing the inner race of the bearing to deflect and case to flex..."