|
Young man - no one is saying you are not bright or even brilliant and may come up with a great solution...but you could learn a lot from the presentation style of smart people like Feelyx and the generosity of folks like Jake. I work with a lot of bright young people and I find their only weakness is they don't realize how important real life experience is. I try to find their strengths and nurture them along. You sir have a large ego that may make you a lot of money some day but certainly it won't make for easy conversation.
You would have received full acceptance by everyone had you not gone on the attack. There is a big difference between saying something is crap science and saying you believe it may not have been done correctly. See the key word there is 'believe'. I already feel bad because this is the harshest I have ever been toward anybody after 1000+ posts. Carry on. We look forward to your results. |
You shouldn't feel bad. We all have opinions...like mine on the IMSG. I didn't say they were stupid, or bash them, I said, from one engineer to another, that it doesn't seem like the right solution to me. Of course the IMSGs success proves itself; they're making money, I'm not. That's why I'm in a forum showing my opinion and not on their porch screaming at their face.
It just so happens other members and I were sharing opinions of the IMSG. More on topic: I might also have a way to get some undergrads to do the research behind my idea as their senior design project. It would certainly produce more quality research in a timely manner given my schedule. Otherwise, I'll start using my weekends to develop the prototype. More info by the weekend on that. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free |
Quote:
Real-time oil chemistry and property analysis is winning by far - at least it provides historical data of any sort of failures. Problem is the price of the system for an everyday end user! We are not haters buddy I reassure you (lol), we are skeptical that's all ;) |
Quote:
|
I agree with you! You make me miss my best years... although I had to work part-time at McDonald during those ;)
Bear in mind that a lot of 986 owners uses different synthetic oils and weight. Design your system to be as dynamic as possible please. Huge challenge for ya. imo the LN engineering/Flat6 innovation guardian idea is the best. So bloody simple and ridiculously cheap as well - now that works for me. Don't quit school (I didn't meant what I said in an earlier post). Apologies |
I assume you're talking about vibration monitoring?
|
What is the name/manufacture of the sin bearing?
I know epapp talks big and may come off as arrogant, trust me, I know.... But having known him for quite a while, I can say that he only does so when he's pretty darn sure he can back it up. I for one am interested in seeing how the system develops...
I mean, you should see his A/C cold air intake <- jk |
Honestly the IMSG only gives a symptom to an issue that otherwise would not have one. The more wise choice is retrofitting.
The IMSG really only makes sense on the cheap cars that aren't worth the cost of retrofitting. Too many people have used the IMSG as a "trade in tool". They have an alert, quantify that its real, rip the system out and then trade the car off. That sad, but is occurring. One of the people in my class this past weekend witnessed it occur and shared the story. |
Quote:
Great in a 'static' environment however. Same engine, same oil, same parts, ambient temp.... saved many R&D staffers from 17,000RPM thin-walled block explosions... other than that. Dunno what it could be used for. Heard the latest McLaren knock sensor had a 700+ page datasheet. Monitoring is the last phase of any implementations. The embedded algorithm those sensors have today is pretty intense - they can also do real-time analysis/perform smart ops. Problem is nobody can apply those in a dynamic environment without them costing millions of dosh anyway ;) Useless. |
epapp have recently developed an "x-ray" sensor in his third underground. Don't tell anyone I told you. The automotive spy crowd is after him already
|
Quote:
Whatever. I know crap about cars anyway. I'm out of here |
Quote:
may come off as arrogant? ya think? I don't really care how sure he is of himself - you don't walk into a room of knowledgeable, experienced people and start swinging your dick like he did. He needs to learn a little humility, be a little less full of himself, and remember that people here were working on this issue when he was still pushing Tonka trucks around his sandbox and making vroom-vroom noises. Especially given that he has nothing to show us to back his claim, just a bunch of empty chatter. |
”Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.“ – Albert Einstein
|
Quote:
And I did have a sandbox...that I played with many little trucks in. I think you're just upset that I claim to have a solution all while being so much less experienced than...you? |
Not at all. I just think that your attitude is inappropriate and I call things how I see them.
I work with lots of engineers and I am used to seeing young pups like you fresh out of school thinking that they are God's gift to the field. You'll understand where I am coming from once you have a few more years under your belt. And, for the record, I'd really like to hear your idea, as opposed to you just telling us what a great idea you think you have. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
You can monitor camshaft deviation at intervals like 5000 miles You can take your oil filter apart and check for metal particles You can take your oil pan off at oil changes as well. Broke and lazy dont work together. I remember not being able to afford many repairs or modifications in college, and being able to still get the result I wanted by rolling my sleeves up and getting the job done myself. Cheap? Porsche sells an original IMS bearing for about $120, although I wouldnt recommend it. Being too lazy to pull the transmission down? Tough s**t! If you dont want to pay someone $500 to paint your hallway, go to home depot, buy the paint, and do it yourself. No sympathy here. Its not that bad to pull the transmission down anyway:cheers: |
Quote:
I'm not broke (but I would always do my own work before paying someone else to do it), and I have no reason to pull the transmission until next summer to put in my new clutch. If I needed to (or had signs of RMS/IMS failure) I would pull it in a heartbeat. That being said, wouldn't an IMS bearing health solution be easy and nice if you didn't need to remove anything for it to work?? |
I guess, but theres no other way to monitor the health of that bearing...
Maybe theres a certain frequency when the bearing is failing that could be measured around the oil pump drive? |
If the guy has a good idea and wants to work hard to develop it and bring it to market, then more power to him. He needs to realize that the idea and making it work are really the easiest 25% of the process, the rest is what doesn't come easy.
That said the majority of my life my age worked against me in the industry. I was "fixing" mistakes made by those who were working on engines before I was born when I was a teenager. I started this company when I was 13 (literally) and ran it through the time I was in the USMC, most of the time out of my barracks room and selling parts and engines at the Pomona Swap Meet. I came home at age 22 and went full time, having to fight the old codgers that had to be proven wrong to get any respect from them. Still today I fight that and I promised to never be one of those old bastards that stopped learning, didn't care and only thought that my time on this planet made me better or smarter than the next guy. Anyone who decides to play this game better have strength and endurance, and be able to work while sleep depraved. They had better not care about having nights, weekends and holidays off and they better be willing to spend every single dime they have in savings and max out every credit card they own to chase the dream. If they don't, then they'd best just collect their paycheck from someone else and not sign it themselves. |
There are a couple methods of detecting failing bearing assemblies that were developed as preventative maintenance practice for factory and shop machines. I am anxious to learn what epapp has to offer the automotive world so I can go buy that 997 I’ve been keeping an eye on!:cheers:
http://www.mobiusinstitute.com/articles.aspx?id=2088 Using accelerometers or using a broadband pickup and heterodyning for our ears to hear are interesting thoughts but I think would be a challenge on internal combustible engines (with all the other noises and moving parts) but if one could be installed on the IMS bearing cover it might work… OK, I’m off to the lab to develop. |
Quote:
Still cheaper to buy a second hand engine imo ;) |
We utilized vibration analysis to try and create trend data for pinpointing failing bearings in 2007-2008. It was worthless! After putting equipment in the hands of dealers seeing 50+ M96 powered cars per week we could not gather any information that was reliable. Dual mass flywheels are enough by themselves to create variances in harmonics.
It was difficult enough to use this type of equipment when testing aircraft (Helicopters) utilizing iterations per second measurement values. Half the time we were better off setting up blade trim the old fashioned way with trim tabs, targets on the blades and hanging ourselves out the crew door with a strobe light to measure the blade paths to set track and balance. |
Quote:
Bare bone physics, simplicity and common sense always win ;) epapp needs to reinvent the bearing |
epapp if one day you fancy being taken seriously; the hint is "controlled magnetic levitation". You'd sell so many IMS Retrofit kit believe me
Or rotational stabilization magnetic levitation, not sure forgot.... |
New ideas is something we should never suppress. If we do that and just go with the flow, we become a nation of dummies. So think outside the box and question and improve everything. Besides if this idea of his doesn't work, the cost to us was nothing. But it could lead to a solution for something else.
Exanple.... Two Scientist were working on a drug for high blood pressure iirc. Turned out it didn't work as predicted. But what turned up as well was all the test patients had the same side effects from the drug which was an erection. Ditched the original plan for that drug and started selling some version of that formula as Viagra. From what I remember. :D:D:D The Guardian is a very good product imho. But lets see what this guys got. Hit or miss I just ask that you be respectful to vets on this forum. |
If the Guardian says that your engine is shedding ferrous material, that is all that you need to know. Stop. Flatbed. Get it to an engine internals expert and determine the cause. You don't care which of the failure modes is triggering the diagnosis at that point. Because of the warning, you may be able to stop the rotation in time to save the engine from getting little pieces all through the smaller oil passages and thus making the engine a scrap candidate or a complete rebuild candidate ... both of which are perhaps beyond the financial willingness of most. Where the single failure repair might be in time to save the engine and be financially affordable.
A diagnostic test that detected only the IMS failure could leave the engine exposed to the other failure modes some of which could lead to things that could be detected but not by a test for only one thing. If you are thinking vibration analysis, I know several people who tried it. May you have better luck than they had. |
perhaps measure static deflection of the shaft? he seems to be focussing on the lateral loading of the bearing, and insinuating that his test will provide info without constant monitoring. this way you could run the test on an engine that isn't running and remove a lot of the variables. of course, uncertain how much deflection a failing bearing would exhibit, and what role deteriorating chain tensioners, etc., would play ...
regardless, lots of trash talk going on here. people appear to not like his attitude, so respond with worse attitudes? I think mark t even threatened a backhand? poor. |
I did no such thing. And I'm very interested in what he has to show, if he does have something to show. It was just that "real engineering" crack that was such a slap in the face to so many people here that set me off on the guy.
|
It seems like the only people who got upset were the ones who are scared that they don't actually practice real engineering?
...I'm just kidding...I'd rather not get my 'ear' slapped again. But seriously, yes I have a good idea with which smart people 'reasonably skilled in the art' think will work (anyone with patents knows what I'm talking about ;) ). My PI and I are obviously very busy, he wants to meet in the next few days for more discussion on the bearing topic/review what I have on it so far, in addition to selecting my method of attack. So yes the ice is breaking with the project, but I never promised it would be implemented soon :eek: |
Then, friend, if not real-time oil analysis & monitoring, or, vibration waveform algorithms, then, if not xray, your only last chance to make real engineering real is poking the AE signals of the bearing (acoustic emissions). High sensitivity magnetic dB mic uplinked to a custom iPhone app?
Am I going to win anything by being the only one guessing what's to be guessed?! |
Hey Epapp, I have some old skateboard bearings you can use to test your system on. Oh, and the bearing on my Dremel is about to go to.
|
Quote:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free |
Quote:
So thank you. |
Quote:
Post 169: "...What I am developing is a setup that takes the swivel point from inside the shaft, and moves it to outside the case. With my setup, the bearing insert has 2 steps that support the shaft on different levels to make it rigid in the shaft, the bearing is supported in the case halves, where as the original setup, the chains pull on the bearing and shaft (like a lever) causing the inner race of the bearing to deflect and case to flex..." |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:02 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website