do caymens have ims issue?

[runjmc2]

I expect to looking at a 2005-2006 997 in the next few years and want to be sure I get the updated IMSB design. For the 2005 mid-year design upgrade, is that a M96 or M97? Asked another way, was the IMSB design upgrade only applied to the M97, or first in the M96 for a short period of time in 2005?

If the upgrade was in the M96 in 2005, that would obviously make it more difficult to determine which 2005's had the upgrade. In that case, can the VINs in the class action suit be trusted in this regard (e.g. if the VIN is not on the list, it is the upgraded IMSB design)

Thanks and sorry for taking a bit off topic

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by runjmc2

I expect to looking at a 2005-2006 997 in the next few years and want to be sure I get the updated IMSB design. For the 2005 mid-year design upgrade, is that a M96 or M97? Asked another way, was the IMSB design upgrade only applied to the M97, or first in the M96 for a short period of time in 2005?

If the upgrade was in the M96 in 2005, that would obviously make it more difficult to determine which 2005's had the upgrade. In that case, can the VINs in the class action suit be trusted in this regard (e.g. if the VIN is not on the list, it is the upgraded IMSB design)

Thanks and sorry for taking a bit off topic

The "final solution" IMS began to appear in model year 2005. Unfortunately, the only way to know that a 2005 engine has this unserviceable design bearing is to pull the trans and clutch out, and look at the IMS center bolt. If it is 22MM, it is the last design bearing. There is no other known way to find out.

And just as a "by-the-by" the last design IMS fails as well, so it is no assurance of not having a problem.

[Brad Roberts]

very very good info in this thread!!

Thank you Husker for a thorough explanation

What many do not discuss with the 05.5 and up M97 engines? The bearing is MUCH MUCH bigger than the M96 bearings (I mean diameter bigger) which means it turns at a lower rpm than the M96 bearing (it's already turning half of crankshaft speed) + it has more ball bearings!!

I haven't seen a failure of this larger M97 bearing (yet) and I have had 8-10 of them come through the shop (engines) and 15-20 987/Cayman customers.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by pothole

Sorry, what? The 2.9 engine isn't DFI, but all the 9A1-based engines (so all 987.2 and 997.s wet sump engines) have no IMS, have closed deck bores and revised cooling.

What exactly is it you think the 'mid-engine' models are missing?

must have been off my meds. Got my Caymans wrong. 987.1 Caymans did not get m97 updates found on the m97 Carreras.

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

I haven't seen a failure of this larger M97 bearing (yet) and I have had 8-10 of them come through the shop (engines) and 15-20 987/Cayman customers.

But we also haven't yet seen a huge number of m97 Cayman and Carrera with really high mileage either. One of the reasons Porsche is near the top of the reliability rankings is due to low mileage, only the Cayenne sees consistent daily driving among its owners. As a class, Cayman, Carrera, Boxsters take over a decade to see high mileage...precisely when they start becoming affordable to most with more limited budgets. Once these new bearings start going well north of 100K miles and they start to become really contaminated/dry out/under-perform and the then current owner opts not to spend the considerable amount of money to crack open the engine to swap out the old m97 IMSB for fresh one, what's going to become of these engines? I really can't think of any reason that these bearings are going to sit still in the engine forever. Fahrvergnügen?

[Brad Roberts]

Perfect?

I have multiple 987 customers with over 100k on them. Most are in the 80k range right now.

This is SoCal. We driver our cars We don't own a *winter* car or have *winter* tires

Now that I think back, I have at least 2 in the 115k range.

My Texas shop owners have all reported 987's well into the 90k+ range.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

Now that I think back, I have at least 2 in the 115k range.

That's sort of my point. You're running a shop and even then you only see a handful north of 100K. It's too early to give the m97 IMSB the all clear since, and this is the important part, most are still in their reasonable life expectancy period.
Firgure the m96 single row that fails, under suboptimal care/use, was only good for ~50-70K or less, I would presume that the m97 bearing would be good for double at most? Probably less since once the bearing is contaminated, neglected for too long, the drop-off comes quickly.

The other issues seems to be, as you point out, your cars are actively driven by its owners. Will an m97 IMSB that was driven meekly, short shifted, etc. and sat for long periods (typical Porsche usage), fare as well once the bearing is long past the 'sell by date' -- and ALL bearings have one. In other words, m97 IMSB's seem to be doing a good job during their life expectancy, but the overwhelming majority of these non-serviceable bearings will not be retired when they should be.