Duel Row Bearing Consensus ?

[pothole]

Originally Posted by southernstar

Yes, I have replaced a number of failed water pumps on these engines, although generally with higher mileage. Of course, I have also seen transmissions fail - would you like me to replace that too?

Brad

Heh, very droll. But it somewhat misses the point. The water pump failing can take the engine with it if things really go bad in the wrong way. If a new water pump was $5 fitted, you'd be mad not to change it every 20k miles or so, just to be on the safe side. The fact that the transmission can fail is irrelevant to that. As it is, the water pump costs more than $5 but it's still cheap enough to be worth considering as a part you refresh proactively rather than when it fails. Not every 20 k miles, but somewhere in the 60-100k range depending on how you feel about it.

Another critical point is that there are some parts that when they fail they tend not to take the rest of the car / engine with it. Actually, the transmission is one of these. It won't really cost you more to replace it when it goes than before it goes because it usually won't damage anything else when it dies. With the water pump, a failure could see you overheat the engine and kill that, too. So it makes sense to have a different attitude and consider replacing it before it fails.

There are limits to this. I've done my water pump because DIY it's not expensive. I'm not up to doing my bearing DIY and it's probably 1/3 of the value of the car to get it done, thus a deem it uneconomical. The fact that I have a dual-row bearing makes that an easier call.

[SeanZ4]

Brad, yes it has made me feel better about it!.... Much better. I believe you helped me the other night when I posted my engine VIN. I was having a hard time seeing as it was coated in fine crud. I have an annoying squeak in my clutch right now (throwout bearing?) that will need attention at some point, but it's not affecting the drivability of the car. Will I replace the imsb at the time of clutch replacement??? Still not sure? I just saw an ad on craigslist for a Boxster (Kansas City area) They were touting that the car had the old double row bearing and how that's a good thing etc. So the word is spreading.....

[Mark_T]

I am fairly certain that my '99 (128000 km) has a dual row bearing. I do not lose sleep or otherwise worry about it. I may change it out if/when I replace my clutch, which shouldn't be anytime soon, but I absolutely will not be going out of my way to change it sooner than that.

I do not buy in to all the doom-and-gloom, sky-is-falling, fear-mongering that we are regularly being bombarded with. I fell for it once and changed out what turned out to be a perfectly good water pump. Fool me once...

I am more concerned about Z-day than I am about my IMSB.

[Johnny Danger]

I'm on the verge of canceling my plans to do the IMSB retro-fit and simply stick with regular oil changes and monitoring the situation some more.

[southernstar]

JD, I've been waiting for some naysayer to suggest that with your moniker, 'Johnny Danger', they would have expected nothing less! Of course, I suppose the correct response would be to say that you are not 'Johnny Stupid'!
And MarkT, at least my mechanic talked me out of making the same mistake on my waterpump. Let's face it, if I had followed the advice of some and replaced my pump at 50,000 miles as a prophylactic, I'd be on my fourth pump by the time I reached the 200 and some thousand miles that Pedro ( of pedrosboard) has on his original waterpump!

If you have a dual-row bearing engine - especially one with a good service history with respect to oil changes (which by all accounts will bring the risk even lower than 'much less than 1%') - why not just drive the car as it was meant to be driven and ENJOY IT? When you need a new clutch, then make a decision. Afterall, the cost of additional labour is negligible at that point. Until then, keep in mind that there are a number of things that can go wrong with the car - including, as Raby points out, other potentially fatal engine problems that won't be corrected by a new IMS bearing.

Brad

[fatmike]

JD - At the risk of jinxing myself...



I believe my car has a dual row bearing. I previously considered putting in a new bearing.

If my car was in the VIN range of the single row, I would likely pro-actively do it. Since it's likely dual, I don't plan to update it for now.




/

[AKnowles]

For my two cents worth, I just plan to treat the dual row bearing as a replacement item when I do the clutch. Whenever that occurs. Since I don't have the previously history I can't say when my clutch is expected to fail. Same thing for the ISMB. Who knows when it will fail much less if it will fail. If it happens, it happens. If it lasts until my clutch needs work I'll replace it then regardless of its condition. Until then, I just step on the pedal and don't worry about it and enjoy the ride.

[Camibox]

146,000 miles on my 99

[runjmc2]

Consensus and bearing in the same sentence on a 986 forum....lol.

It's all about risk/reward and every situation is different so the lack of a single answer is understandable.

[ATX_Boxster]

Here's a good read from Flat 6 regarding the upgrade installation. Seems like they will give the Box a thorough inspection both pre and post installation of the new bearing as part of their process:

The Flat 6 IMS Bearing Retrofit in Detail - Page 4

As a new owner, I would really want to feel comfortable with my shop before I went ahead with a procedure like this for preventative maintenance. Seems that if the bearing removal or install were botched, (or anything else along the way), then I'd also have things to worry about - and may not even know it.

[MBDiagMan]

Originally Posted by ATX_Boxster

Here's a good read from Flat 6 regarding the upgrade installation. Seems like they will give the Box a thorough inspection both pre and post installation of the new bearing as part of their process:

The Flat 6 IMS Bearing Retrofit in Detail - Page 4

As a new owner, I would really want to feel comfortable with my shop before I went ahead with a procedure like this for preventative maintenance. Seems that if the bearing removal or install were botched, (or anything else along the way), then I'd also have things to worry about - and may not even know it.

That link involves some chilling reading in the "when to replace" section. It's easy to see why this is a subject with LOTS of different viewpoints and opinions.

[jaykay]

Some things to keep in mind:

Unless my information is outdated, MY 2000 can have a double or a single row. I was lucky with finding a double row. Going in there and doing it is how you find out. I wanted to ensure that if I had a single row, it got changed

The double rows are sealed as well and will have less than optimum lubrication inspite its better load capacity.

A double row hybrid bearing is a nice thing to have in that location along with a 997 RMS (although mine popped on the track!)

My double row showed signs of oil ingress means the seals were going. This means the dedicated lube was starting to wash away

[jb92563]

Yea, I probably have Dual Row, pending a look at the actual IMS Cover.
That being the case, I'm not going to worry about it ever, and if it does go, I'll have an excuse for a 3.4l or 3.6l upgrade.

Here is how you can tell based on the Lawsuit included vehicles (Single row bearing only)

VIN Decoder

To decode your VIN to see if you are included you just need the last 8 digits to determine if you are in the range or not.
ie VIN WP0CA29851S620508 last 8 = 1S620508

From Left to right of last 8:
1 = model year (1=2001 2=2002 etc)
S = Factory (S= Stutgart, U=Finland)
6 = Car Type (6= 986, 7=987)
2 = Engine/Body ( 2=??? ( 2.5l, 2.7l), 6=3.2l)
0508 = Production Sequence number

Mine is 1U66 0917 which is well outside the range of single row bearing cars produced in Finland (WP0CB2986 1U66 4289 - WP0CB2984 1U66 5473)
So Im very likely a Dual row bearing.

If you can see your bearing here is how you can tell. Single row on Left, Dual Row cover on right. Notice the shallow "dish" of the Dual row cover.






Which Porsche vehicles are included?
The following Porsche Boxster and 911 vehicles that experienced or will experience IMS related engine damage are included:
• Model year 2001 - 2005 Porsche Boxster vehicles manufactured with an IMS between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 with VINs in the following ranges:
o WP0CA29851S620508 - WP0CA29831S620619
o WP0CB29811S660405 - WP0CB29801S660492
o WP0CA29821U625959 - WP0CA29891U627644
o WP0CB29861U664289 - WP0CB29841U665473
o WP0CA29892S620061 - WP0CA29802S620238
o WP0CA29832U620061 - WP0CA29892U626107
o WP0CB29802U660062 - WP0CB29892U664319
o WP0CB29862S660062 - WP0CB29852S660344
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U602762
o WP0ZZZ98Z2U640813
o WP0CA298X3S620068 - WP0CA29853S620222
o WP0CA29813U620061 - WP0CA298X3U625002
o WP0CB29803U660063 - WP0CB29803U663240
o WP0CB29853S660068 - WP0CB298X3S660227
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U604185
o WP0ZZZ98Z3U640971
o WP0CA29854S620061 - WP0CA29824S621085
o WP0CA298X4U620061 - WP0CA29854U621568
o WP0CB29804S660061 - WP0CB29834S660555
o WP0CB29854U660061 - WP0CB29834U661824
o WP0CA298X5U710067 - WP0CA29815U711852
o WP0CB29885U730069 - WP0CB29835U731310

[Eric G]

Mine had the double row, mine was in failure when I changed it out. I think Porsche took the cheap low road on this settlement. In the eyes of the courts...they made "due diligence" to rectify the problem but they only scratched the surface.

[thom4782]

Brad:

You described it well. Contaminated oil is root of the problem in my opinion. I agree that your comment abot low mile cars with frequent oil changes, especially after winter or many months storage. Thanks for clarifying my explanation.

Thom

[thom4782]

Revised - duplicate submittal

[ccjazz]

No intentions of derailing the thread, but.....regarding oil changes and their importance to IMSB health.

Summers here are not as long as some of you are accustomed to, which explains the low mileage on my car. I've done the last 2 oil changes in spring after winter storage. I was thinking about moving my oil changes to fall before putting it away for the winter to have clean/fresh oil in it while in hibernation.

So, what would you recommend is the best schedule, spring or fall changes?

I will likely average 2-3000 mi/year.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by ccjazz

No intentions of derailing the thread, but.....regarding oil changes and their importance to IMSB health.

Summers here are not as long as some of you are accustomed to, which explains the low mileage on my car. I've done the last 2 oil changes in spring after winter storage. I was thinking about moving my oil changes to fall before putting it away for the winter to have clean/fresh oil in it while in hibernation.

So, what would you recommend is the best schedule, spring or fall changes?

I will likely average 2-3000 mi/year.

What ever happened to the concept that synthetic oils were good for thousands of miles ?

[AKnowles]

Originally Posted by ccjazz

I was thinking about moving my oil changes to fall before putting it away for the winter to have clean/fresh oil in it while in hibernation.

When I had to store a car or motorcycle, the basic consenous at the time was to fill it with fresh oil and stabil in the full gas tank, run it to cirrculate it, then put it away. When I pulled it out of storage it was time to change the oil and give it a road trip to burn out the gas (good excuse if nothing else).

[thom4782]

For most people, it is about the money. They worry - not because their 986 will be a total write off if the engine grenades due to an IMSB failure - but because they might have to fork out $2oK in the worst case to buy a Raby engine and have it installed in their Boxsters to get their cars back on the road.